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Reference Value - property tree

Former Member
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Hi EHS SAP Gurus.

I am trying to define the Reference value for Occupational Exposure Limit for an Agent Risk.

About this I have two questions:

1) I would put the Occupational Exposure Limit in the field "Limit Value" in the Standard Property Tree, but I am not finding the Standard Unit of measure that allow me to have for example  80 V, having  80 in the field of Limit Value and V (voltage) in the unit of measure field.

Is it correct?  What do I need to change?

 

2) I created a phrase dB(A) and I assigned it to Unit of measurement, but when I call the reference value in the measurement project, the System doesn't recognise the unit of measurement and gives me an error about unit dimensions (they must have the same unit dimension) Where can I choose the unit of measure to fill correctly the "non standard unit of measure" in the value assignment instance in the standard property tree? Is there any specification or customizing activity for Property Tree?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Accepted Solutions (1)

Accepted Solutions (1)

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Hello

I try to give you a small feedback:

Property: "Occupational Exposure Limit": I am "surprised" to read that you would like enter 80 V (Volt). Normally in SAP EH&S the defintiion like this is true:

Occupational Exposure Limits (OELs) help to control exposure to dangerous substances in the workplace, by setting the maximum amount of (air) concentration of a substance that can safely be allowed.

That means we are normally not talking about "Voltage" but concentration of substances; may be you can explain/add further infos?

Regarding the phrase topic: i belvie we are talking about SAP IHS ? Normally you can not use phrase based information to handle unit of measurement topics; SAP is providing a number of characteristics (like you have described); but in most cases the content is used only for MSDS generation or similar topics. Once again in most cases the "non standard unit of measure" is either phrase based or "freetext";

The handling of UoMs in a SAP system is not easy especially in the area of EH&S.

C.B.



Answers (5)

Answers (5)

Former Member
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Hi Michele,

In your case Phrase management wouldn't works. You have to play with the numeric values, when you are comparing with measured values and reference values.

Check your characteristic in property tree, which you are using.

That characteristic should have been maintained Data type - as "Numeric format". (CT04)

Select the Number of chars, Decimal places & "Unit of measure". which is very important.

whenyou are entering the data, the numeric format pick the UOM automatically.

I hope answered your quesiton.

Regards

kamal

Former Member
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Hi Kamal, I paid attention to characteristic too.

When you want to set up the standard property tree, you should be authorized to change the standard characteristics. I was not. So I defined a new value assignment instance in a custom property tree where I created a charactheristic like NS_VALUE_LIMIT in numeric format (like you say). This works.

Well, this other solution was not properly good, because when I go in measurment management and I call the reference value, the system doesn't read the new property tree. I think that could be another problem.

The principal problem is that probably SAP didn't realize a standard property tree having consideration of all risk specification, beacuse in my opinion it is not possible to use a characteristic used for substance for an agent risk like noise, that even if it is produced by something should evaluated with reference value and consequently unit of measure appropriate....

Ralph_P
Advisor
Advisor
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Hi Michele,

two pieces of advice after your last post:

1) Never ever change a standard class or characteristic

2) Never ever change the standard property tree

The reason is simply that they are defined by the standard. Whenever you do an upgrade, install an add-on, implement a new functionality etc. that rely on the standard you may run into enormous problems if this standard has been changed.

Ralph

Former Member
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Hi Ralph.

I agree with you. I don't want to change the Standard Property Tree, but it is important to understand, like Kamala said, how we can add a numeric value in the system.

I am not convinced to define the Standard Property Tree for EXPO_NOISE, a specification type that SAP defined standard.

In the field "Value in non-standard unit" I should be able to input a numeric value, instead the standard system allows us to input  only a character format (30); exactly the system put the object SAP_EHS_1023_006_VALUE_NS, which is an object type Character.

Consequently it is not possible to compare this limit value with a measured value, added in the measurement project.

Should there be a way to input the limit value and the limit value unit in standard system?

Probably there could be some setting to create in SPRO, but even if I have persuit from SPRO the Setting for Value Assignment, I was not able to input a numeric value in the standard property tree.

Thanks to everybody.

Michele.

Ralph_P
Advisor
Advisor
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Hi Michele,

Checking the characteristic I have to agree with you, especially since e.g.  SAP_EHS_1023_046_VALUE_NS is, in fact,defined as numeric. I guess you have two options, either define your own characteristic for this use or ask SAP why SAP_EHS_1023_006_VALUE_NS is defined as a phrased field, which doesn't really make sense.

Ralph

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Kamila Ralph and Christoph studying the Standard Property Tree in order to define the O.E.L. for any agent risk which is not a substance and which requires unit of measure that are not standard (no-standard unit of measure), I found these elements.

For the  International Exposure Limits we have:

SAP_EHS_1023_006_VALUE_NS where it is allowed additional values and a function module that checks phrases;  so it should be possible to add value without using phrases assigned to the characteristic about it, but it doesn’t happen, the system requires the phrase;

SAP_EHS_1023_006_NS_UNIT where it is allowed additional values and a function module that checks phrases; so it should be possible to add value without using phrases assigned to the characteristic about it doesn’t happen.

For the European Exposure limits we have:

SAP_EHS_1023_046_VALUE_NS with  allowed value >= 0,0000; here it is possible to insert numeric value and the system catches all;

SAP_EHS_1023_046_NS_UNIT where it is not possible to add value and it exists a function module that checks phrases.

From this analysis the questions are:

in Standard Property Tree must value assignment be done using only phrases?

And why the system doesn’t recognize additional values when the characteristic foreseens additional values (SAP_EHS_1023_006_VALUE_NS)?

In the case the Property Tree is only used charging the phrases, does it exist a package available for this Property Tree?

Why the reference values  (occupational exposure limits) are not called in the transaction CBIHM2 (measurement project)?  And the reference values are called  only when the OEL is defined in the International Exposure Limits, why is it?

Is there anyone who has managed agent risks and their characteristics?

Thanks to all.

Regards,

   Michele.

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Hello Michele

I believe you are now "lost" a little bit. I try it now different: SAP is providing us a property tree which is called "STANDARD". This property does have a number of "properties" assigned to it. Some of them does have a link to SAP class management and therefore there is a class available like SAP_EHS_1023_006. Using the basis set up of SAP some of the characteristics will be phrases based some not.

As explained you should never change this set up. If you need something different: create your own class, characteristics, properties etc. and make it available in a property tree (you could enlarge STANDARD; most customers trend to use their own tree).

Now coming back to your examples:

SAP_EHS_1023_006_VALUE_NS: where it is allowed additional values and a function module that checks phrases;  so it should be possible to add value without using phrases assigned to the

=> your conclusion i wrong. If the characteristic can have more than one value and the check function of phrases is activated you must use a phrase set linked to the characteristic

SAP_EHS_1023_006_NS_UNIT where it is allowed additional values and a function module that checks phrases; so it should be possible to add value without using phrases assigned to the characteristic about it doesn’t happen.

=> if the check function of phrases is assigned ot the characteristic you can only use phrases !

I try now to explain some EH&S basics (clearly basics from SAP class system):

a.) you define a characteristic; in doing so you can use check functions, you can use tables etc. to "check" your entries. Further you can populate your charactristic with" values" like "A, B, C..."  if you define these values ase allowed values.

b.) Now characteristic of type numeric are "different". In most cases you can enter only one value; then you can specify check routine like: values are only allowed  > 1000 etc.; further on you can make a relation to a "UOM" using SAP functionality. Take a look at "flash point" this is a good example. Then you can define if negative values are allowed, if intervalls are allowed etc.

This might be only a small help but I hope that you can now go on

With best regards

C.B.

PS: I assume you have still read:

http://help.sap.com/erp2005_ehp_06/helpdata/en/8a/3b6e361b2fac0be10000009b38f839/frameset.htm

and

http://help.sap.com/erp2005_ehp_06/helpdata/en/8a/3b6e361b2fac0be10000009b38f839/frameset.htm

etc.


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Christoph I appraciate all of your advise and explanation. They are useful.

However I tried to customize the Standard Property Tree.

In first of all I arranged a new characteristic ZSAP_1023_006_NS_UNIT1, with a unit of measure (standard in the SAP system, e.g. m/sec2), then I added it in the Standard Property Tree and updated the Tree. I have now a Property Tree with another field “unit of measure Vibration” for the value assignment instance SAP_EHS_1023_006 “Occupational Exposure limit”.

That was good, even if it has only a unit of measure defined for a specific  agent risk. But it is a good goal achieved.

To use the Property Tree I have to call the Limits in another transacation CBIHM2.

When I would use the O.E.L. for a measurement project (CBIHM2), the system doesn’t import the value assigned in that new field, probably because the system keeps only determined fields of the value assignment instance, as well as the standard fields.

Studying that transaction (CBIHM2) I tried different ways and I noted that the only Occupational Exposure Limits called is the International Occupational Exposure Limits and in particular the values put in the three standard fields by the system (value in ppm, value in ml/m3, value in mg/m3 and Value in Non-standard unit). So probably  are there some customizing to do (even if Property Tree was set up in Customizing)?

Another way that I tried was to put a phrase (created by me) in field “non-standard unit”, but the phrase of unit of measure has not used in the comparison between unit of measure of reference value and the amount quantity.

I attached some pics of what I tried to do on Standard Property Tree.

Probably it should be necessary to create a Tree standard or to set the custom more depthly the custom fields.

(my mail is: lele79_L@hotmail.it)

Thanks for all Christoph.

Regards,

Michele.

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Hello Michele

I am not experienced in using CBIHM2 (and the corresponding customzing) but may be I can provide further "help".

a.) I would like to come back to this:

"International Occupational Exposure Limits and in particular the values put in the three standard fields by the system (value in ppm, value in ml/m3, value in mg/m3 and Value in Non-standard unit)"

Some comment: To my knowledge this is SAP approach: they are collecting demands of many customers and try to think abou useful property structures and they adapt the tree regularly (by using now Enhancement Packages). If you need tree updates you need to check the "content" area of SAP. I did not check this area recently but last time I did check that there was no "service" available to get a "tree" direct (and you need not to wait and to install recent  Enh.Pack) but may be come into contact with SAP regarding this topic.

Now back to your example. Property "International Occupational Exposure Limits" is defined using e.g. these characteristics:

value in ppm

value in ml/m3

value in mg/m3

Value in Non-standard unit

and

"non Standard unit"

Now let us discuss this structure a little bit: if you check Standard tree and compare that to other properties you will find similar structures very often

What is the idea behind that? Answer: based on demands of customers and their feedback  characterisics like

value in ppm

value in ml/m3

value in mg/m3

have been defined. Using characetristic "value in ml/m3" you can enter any value together with any UOM which you can convert

(ml/m3 => m3/m3 etc. etc.) (volume per volume); using "value in mg/m3" you can enter and convert anything like:

mg/m3 => kg/m3 => mg/ml etc. (mass per volumen); Regarding ppm: this does mean "parts per million"; normally I believe it is "dimensionless" defined

Now by checking legal requirements etc. SAP has decided to prepare these characteristics:

"Value in Non-standard unit"

and

"non Standard unit"

These should be read/used always together. Example from legislation: if you make a survey you will find values liek this (as limit values)

1000 fibres/m3 (having the meaning that iv you check the air the company must make sure that not more than 1000 fibree (likes Asbest) are allowed per "m3"

in the air. These type of "UOMs" are used very often in legislation. SAP was not able to prepare here a "suitable" structure. There is no "conversion" rule available to

com from "fibres" and to convert that to "kg" (mg etc.). Therefore SAP propose to use "fibres/m3" as a "phras" which is linked to "non Standard unit" and the value should be maintained in "Value in Non-standard unit".

In your example you would like to used "herz" etc.

In handling IHS issues (like your noise example, radiation example) there are in my opinion a lot of similar demands. The "only" chance you have is: you need to discuss with your business and then per demand add a further "Z characteristic" in the "Z Class" etc.

PLease check once again this link:

http://help.sap.com/erp2005_ehp_06/helpdata/en/8a/3b6e361b2fac0be10000009b38f839/frameset.htm

and the subchapter: "Entering Reference Values" and read carefully (may be) once again the "prerequisite" chapter there some advice is provided regarding the "reference value" (sorry I am not an expert in SAP IHS)

May be somebody different can help you how to prepare the correct custumozing etc

With best regards

C.B.

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Michele,

In your case Phrase management wouldn't works. You have to play with the numeric values, when you are comparing with measured values and reference values.

Check your characteristic in property tree, which you are using.

That characteristic should have been maintained Data type - as "Numeric format".

Y

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Hello Michele

a.) SAP is providing you with "standard" properties. It is allowed to enhance the EH&S system using own properties. I am not aware of any property which you could use to deal with:

"noise, vibration, electromagnetic field, optical radiation, and other physical agent risk " as you would like to do it  (but as SAP Standard tree changes by release may be there might be some suitable property)

b.) The property you have used is from my point of view clearly the wrong one.

So one option in my opinion is to check the tree you have to identify suitable properties. If you are not able to find one: create one. In doing so you are "totally" free in defintion. Therefore you can describe "noise", and other similar stuff by preparing suitable characteristics. Now these characteristics can have an UOM (e.g. dBA .... etc.) and therefore you can use "conversion" rules (e.g. kg to g etc.). Now you are able to maintain the data.

Now lets think a little bit about your demand: normally you have a "location" which you would describe (the work area in SAP IH). Here there could be the danger of "noise" etc. you canget into contact with an electromagnetic field etc.

Now "noise" is not something which can / should be described by using  a specification.

A "suitable" specification in the sense of SAP IH might be: you can get into contact with en.g. nitrogen, oxygen or whatsoever.

Now a specification can emit radiation (like element "Radon", "Urane" etc. But a specification is not useful to describe electromagnetic behaviour etc.

May be this helps to go on

C.B.

Former Member
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Christoph, thanks.

I prepared another own property tree, but when I got the elements of the tree

interested (e.g. the limit value) in the transaction CBIHM2 (measurment project),

the system gives the same problems, beacuse it doesn't recognize the new tree and

the new field (limit value).

I think there could be problems of programming in the system or it is necessary to customize

in other proper manner.

About the way to interpret the noise or vibration risk, it is important to define the risk, not

the root of the risk.

About the chemical risks what you say it is possible, beacuse the chemical risk is expressed by a substance

or a material, instead for noise for example, even if the noise has a source (a machine or a plant)

the property tree that you can use for the source doesn't give you the opportunity to insert the

noise or vibration exposure limite value.

In my opinion it needs to create surely a new suitable property tree with dedicated fields (limit value and unit of measurment)

and SAP by abap programmig should give the possibility to use new property tree choosing the fields

interested in automatic manner (like for the standard property tree).

I thank all of you that answered to my doubts,

hopening to have any new from SAP.

Ralph_P
Advisor
Advisor
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Hi Michele,

If I understood correctly, you defined a new property tree and in this tree you copied the same class/characteristic as you had in the standard tree? If so, then of course it doesn't work since you still have the problem of comparing a UoM woth a phrase. You need to define a new characteristic for your value so that the UoM in thisa characteritic is actually maintained as a UoM. Potentially, you have to define the UoM as well if it doesn't exist yet. Then, probably via a FM, you can comapre the two values.

Ralph

Former Member
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Christoph and Ralph thanks for your answers.

I have understood like you said, that from Standard Property it is possible to manage and define only agent risks like Air, biological substance, chemical substance…..and similar data, isn’t it? Let me try to explain better my difficulties.  In that property Tree is very difficult for me to define the Limit Value for example noise, vibration, electromagnetic field, optical radiation, and other physical agent risk because I suppose to put their limits in the respective field like: value in Value in Non-standard Unit and the unit of measure in Non-standard Unit (using phrase).

See the picture “Limit value in standard property tree”.

The other step that verify and use the data defined the first is the follow.

When I am searching to call the reference value for a measurement of an agent risk, in the transaction CBIHM2 (edit measurement project), to compare the reference value with measured value, this value is not charged correctly (because of the property tree definition) and the unit of measure is not charged correctly and consequently it is not realized the comparison.

See the picture “Measurement project – reference value – unit of measure”

Probably the table CCIHS_MJVAIOT that the ABAP code uses is not the same that is used in the Agent workbench Abap code and there are some problems on the correct setting of Property Tree.

I hope that I was more clear and regret for any other answers.

Ralph_P
Advisor
Advisor
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Hi Michele,

That is exactly what doesn't work. Since you maintain the non-standard UoM as a phrase, the system cannot compare it with the UoM DBA. It is like comparing apples with oranges, it just doesn't work. I am sure that there is a way to enter reference values in a way that they can be compared with the measured values, but I have no idea how to do that, you need an IH/OH person here.

Ralph

Ralph_P
Advisor
Advisor
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Hi Michelle,

Christoph is right, non-standard units of measurement are phrase- or free-text based. As such, they cannot be compared with a reference value.

Ralph