Generate Physical samples during goods receipt, sample size should be ML while insp lot in Liters.

[Former Member]

Hi,

I am new to QM, my requirement is to configure the below scenario,

The Raw material comes in a tanker with compartments, the number of compartments can vary from 1 to 6.

The sample size must be 200 ML, while the Inspection lot is maintained in Liters.

So, if a tanker comes in with 4 compartments, then it should create 4 Physical samples with 200 ML each.

The GR should be done for the entire inspection lot minus the Physical samples.

I have maintained the below settings, with some Basic QM knowledge, i might be completely wrong with the below approach, because i still feel this is not the correct configuration settings for the above scenario.

Please advice.

1. Settings in Sample drawing procedure - "COMPART"

Under Primary Samples tab

lot container - ML

ToPartSampleNo - 200 (for sample size)

Size factor 1

Under Number of Physical samples:-

Fixed number 6

2. I have maintained a sampling procedure with sampling type "fixed" and inspection points as "Sample management". The sample size in 200 ML.

3. Settings in Inspection plan

Insp Points - "130" (Inspection point based on container)

Sample-drawing procedure - COMPART

4. Settings in MIC:-

I have maintained in control indicators as destructive sample, to post in sample stock.

After maintaining the above settings, i am not getting the desired sample for the inspection lot.

[former_member42743 · Accepted solution]

I've dealt with this issue many times in the past at many different clients. I encourage you to simplify, simplify, simplify.

No one is tracking the quantity of 200 ml samples out of the tanker. 800 ml isn't even enough to barely register on a truck scale. If the driver went to the bathroom or drank a coffee you'll already be off by the equivalent weight of the sample. 🙂 If you record offloaded quantities by a pump meter, you'll lose 800 ml in the hose when disconnecting or flushing. And the samples usually have to be taken and approved before off loading anyway so they probably wouldn't be record anyway via the meter or would be included in the flush.

Make your physical samples based on container and with a container type of EA. Define the PhysSampContPrimStg as a 200 ml bottle so you have some reference to sample size if you want. Or put the sample size into the sampling text instructions if you print them

On receipt they enter 4 containers received with a UOM of EA. This creates 4 physical primary samples. If only 3 compartments they enter 3 containers, 2 compartments they enter 2 containers, etc. etc.. Then you can create a pooled sample and reserve samples if you want.

This avoids having to inventory and post the small sample qty's as in most tanker deliveries, these are inconsequential since these are either drummed off or dumped into a larger holding tank, often mixed with an existing heel in the tank as well. Which in any large tank, rarely has the accuracy to a ml level.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the above suggestion. I am able to infer that, the sample size need not be considered for stock posting, so i have not maintained destructive sample in control indicator for the MIC

I have tried to incorporate the changes as mentioned above, after that i am able to get the sample size as 200

In the inspection lot, the lot is in REL status, but unable to record any results(not sure why, checked all the basic settings, i am guessing, i have missed out something in sample drawing procedure).

I have maintained the physical sample settings as below:-

1. Maintained it for Primary sample

Physical sample drawing for

Lot container - EA

ToPartSampleNo - "Blank"

Size factor 1

Under Number of Physical samples:-

Fixed number 6

PhysSampContPrimStg - 200 ML

2. Sampling Procedure: I have maintained a sampling procedure with sampling type "fixed" and inspection points as "Sample management". The sample size in 200 ML.

Also, could you please clarify on the below:-

1. "Make your physical samples based on container and with a container type of EA"

not sure where is container type, is it the same as "Lot container" field in Sample drawing item?

2. The base UOM for my material is L, do i need to change this to EA. I have maintained EA in "Lot container" field in sample drawing procedure and entering EA during GR in MIGO.

[former_member42743 · Accepted solution]

1. - I should have said lot container. It's in the MIGO screens when you do a GR and in the inspection lot.

2 - No need to change the UOM. The sample drawing procedure needs to have EA set up in it.

I'm not sure why you set a fixed number of 6? Your primary samples should be based on the number of compartments in the tank truck, i.e. the number of containers.

In the sampling procedure we usually use a fixed sample of 1. I.e. you are performing one test on each sample. Sometimes people do a replicates for a sample, like LOD tests where two pans are done. Each pan result can be recorded and the UD shows the average. Some do two pans but the technician average them and only records one result. It's however you want to do it.

In tank truck testing, all tests typically share the same 200 ml sample. It is not usually required to know the sample sizes for a given test and how much each test used. Just to know you got one sample to test. We don't allocated 5 ml to one test, and 8 ml to another, and 30 ml to another. All tests share the same 200 ml sample.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Craig,

Thank you very much for your expertise.