Creme 4.0 on MI 2.5 Sp13 ?

[Former Member]

Hi forum,

I'm trying to upgrade my mobile applications developed with sap MI 2.5sp13 with Creme Virtual machine 3.27 (that support JDK 1.1.8);

I would like to know if it may be possible to use the MI Client on the PDA with a newer version of the creme runtime JRE because the supported jdk that i use now is too old.

<b>Is it possible to use the newer version of the creme (4.0) with MI 2.5 that supports jdk 1.3 or 1.4?</b>

MY TEST:

1. I modified my 'listOfJar.txt' with new jars of creme 4.0

2. I am trying to start MI

3. I always get the following error message (from JVM log <b>jscpout.log</b>)

<i>NSIcom Ltd., CrEme(tm) Evaluation Version

CrE-ME J2ME(tm)

CrE-ME V4.10 B097.100206 10-February-2006

MemoryLimit=27520Kb

EBCI(TM) Interpreter V1.00,

Copyright 1998-2002 by Bytecodes, Inc.

Use the MobileEngine classloader

Collect jar: \MI\lib\MEg.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\system\crimson.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\system\xalan.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\system\jaxp.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\newclasses.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\tomcat.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\compiler.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\pinstall.jar

Collect jar: \MI\lib\VMclasses.jar

<*>20 Class missing for error "java/lang/NoClassDefFoundError" at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass0()

Detail=java/lang/Object

Exception within Startup.mainnull

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError</i>

Thanks again

Eliana

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Eliana

MI is Personal Java compliant which means only JDK 1.1.8 is supported. MI on PDA will not support newer versions of JDK. Moreover Creme 4.0 is J2ME compliant where as MI is not J2ME compliant. Hence you can only use Creme 3.26, 3.27A etc.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards

Sivakumar

[Former Member]

Hi all

But the Creme that is available in the link mentioned above will only be once that is certified by SAP and as of today Creme 4.0, 4.1 are never certified by SAP for MI. You may only be able to download Creme 3.2* versions.

Best Regards

Sivakumar

[Former Member]

Thanks to all.

So, are you telling me that I have to use jdk 1.1.8 that is almost seven years old, what kind of supposed-new technology sap-mi is

[Former Member]

Hi Eliana,

That was a nice perspective!!! A good point you've put!!

Try to look at it this way - when it comes to Enterprise Packages/Application Solutions, you don't look at the nuances of coding but only the business functionality it offers. The basic business functionality is offered by JDK1.1.8. So tht will do.

<b>SAP MI is not just java coding.</b> The data integration, security, and methodology of data transfer from backend to mobile devices through WebAS - all these factors should be considered when you make this a product.

Also, What are you doing with Java in MI? you use Java only to create the front end application - UI (AWT/JSP) and use the MI API (supported very well by JDK1.1.8) to send the data to middleware. All the business logic lies in the backend. For this reason, JDK 1.1.8 will definitely suffice!

If you are using a Laptop as your mobile device, you can use JDK1.4.x.

For a PDA, with all the constraints it has got (memory & processing capacity, the foremost things) JDK 1.1.8 would suffice. Btw, SAP MI should be moving towards J2ME next. that's the logical thing since many of our present hi-end mobile devices support J2ME right away.

Regards,

Ak

PS: If you have your question answered, kindly reward posts appropriately and mark the question solved!

[Former Member]

dear Arunkumar Ravi,

Thanks again for your answer, but the problem is not so simple as it seems, in fact we faced this problem almost one year ago when we realized our first mobile application set based on sap-mi client 2.5. I think that developing with a such old framework is a massive and aggravating limitation and the fact that SAP is STILL USING IT and CERTIFICATING IT aggravetes the situation.

I'm going to explain:

You said in your message that for the goal of a mobile application, the coding matherial that is available with the current jdk is more than enough, this argumentations fits well if you think to a mobile application just as e set of "display data"-"store date" services based in relatively simple jsp or awt gui.

Our set of application is not so strictly modelded, we need some calculations to be done on the date we receive, we transport received data and we map them back with a custom xml parser, than we calculate dinamically residuates of goods in store directly using mobile device... Besides, we were obliged to implement a multi-key sort order that is not even present in the standard query condition classes that MI puts available..

Finally, we strongly customized and implemented a project-bounded stright application programming interface, and NOT a simple show-store interface, how do we manage to continue to do significant and even more complex upgrades to this technology if we have to handle a framework that does not even hase an acceptable set of methos even in the Vector class?

I do not criticize the work of SAP-Mi programmers but please, let's try to be REALISTIC.

ps.: @forum administrator: my 34 forum points are reset?

[Former Member]

hi Eliana,

You got a point. I guess SAP is also hearing what you are saying. SAP Is revamping MI Architecure. All we need to do is sit tight for sometime and wait.

I'm little curious. Did you check out the performance of your code on PDAs? Is it running fine or slow? And one more thing, if you find the performance of pda's very bad, with all the functionality in place, naturally you move for the next high processing mobile device (Laptop) where you can use JDK1.4.x and hence all latest functionality.

and being realistic, If you think SAP MI doesn't support all these functionalities, then why did u choose SAP MI at the first point? you could've written custom J2ME code and used JCo to connect to the SAP R/3 or ERP backend directly and executed the business functionality you wanted right?

Regards

Ak.

[Former Member]

Hi Ravi,

Even i heard that SAP MI is revamping MI Architecure.

Will there be any change in the concepts and the functionality.

According to me only the internal process changes,but the functionality and work flow will remain the same...Am I correct .Kindly confirm the same?

Cheers,

Karthick

[Former Member]

Hi Karthik,

I'm afraid i can't help you in this as i'm sailing on the same boat as you do. I work for a partner company. So, lets wait and see what SAP is up to!

Greetings~

Ak.

[Former Member]

Thanks Ravi.

[Former Member]

hello karthick, ravi

just a hint.

take <i>web dynpro</i> as the keyword...

regards

jo

[Former Member]

Hi Jo,

You are absolutely right...

MI should also be moving into ESA Space. Instead of SyncBos and Bapi Wrapper, it should make use of services from ESR and with (as you said) webdynpro or any UI Modeling tool, should create UI and deploy apps on the fly just like what's happening in Composite App Framework - CAF (not the mCAF).

And Offline Apps should also get deprecated. And now with decreasing Connectivity costs and Mobile devices' capability improving, the MI Client (based on jdk1.1.8) should move out and browser based online apps should take the place of MI Client (mind, even AWT is deprecated by Sun Microsystems

Regards

Ak.

[Former Member]

Hi Jo,

I think the concept of Syncbos and Bapiwrappers will not be removed.So only from the client side instead of Java based UI,webdynpro will replace it.

Am i right?

Cheers,

Karthick

[Former Member]

hi karthick,

yes you're right.

when web dynpro framework is added on top of smartsync, syncbo will be wrapped

again and will be accessed by the web dynpro apis. on the server-side, the syncbo

concept might still be kept intact, but on the client side, it will be a data object

modelling the web dynpro way; thus the syncbo concept will be transparent.

don't have details on this though. there might be some feature changes when the

product is released. let's just wait when it's out...

regards

jo

[Former Member]

Hi All,

I appreciated this discussion, it is clearing my views about the problem.. besides I'd like to discuss some more regarding what Arunkumar Ravi told about performances and implementation decisions about using SAP MI.

Apart from my considerations above, we didn't have the possibility to choose which software framework our applications were based on, because the projects specifications were specifically designed to fit our software house' requirements to have a full SAP Mobile Certificated app. set. Considering this we were obliged to choose that platform and that architecture even if there were other more efficent ways to follow.

Performance optimiziation and testing took away a lot of time, as you know the consequent disadvantange of not having a standard j2ee or j2me framework obliged us to use lots of custom methos and parsers even for those more obvious functionalities such as passing parameters from a page to another in a smarter way than querystring or session was...

Apart from this, we had to implement a certain kind of "sort engine" emulating in fact database capability such as the "order by" on a query and a local set of objects that keep in memory history of changes before synchronization.

This kind of software structure is not so light to process as you could imagine, our test environment was a Q-Tek 9090 handheald device, and i have to say that the mean time to change froma a page to another with this software architecture was almost 2 or 3 seconds. That was not so critical as it seems if you think you're working with a mobile device, but to boost performances we decided to switch to a real dataabase.. that is the story about it.

I'm glad that SAP is probably wondering around the same problems that we are facing .. and I will hope that the solution and upgrade will come up soon, till that time I think that we will be forced to face up some more problems customizing and customizing and hammering on and trying to fit the box in the circle...

[Former Member]

Hi Eliana,

> our applications were based on, because the projects fit our

> software house' requirements to have a full SAP

> Mobile Certificated app. set.

Why don't you try to use Mobile WebDynpro? It is also a part of SAP MI but online connectivity mode (not offline). As Jo pointed out, you can use better features if you are using Webdynpro.

And as you pointed out, JDK 1.1.8 doesn't have any built in functions as you have in JDK 1.4.x. Only you need to write your own custom methods as workarounds for the functions you need to use. If you are writing that java code with performance in mind, probably you can achieve better performance with your customization.

Regards

Ak.

[Former Member]

hello arun,

i was not referring to the "online" Mobile WebDynpro but instead the WebDynpro

as integral part of the future MI for its UI/modelling layer.

regards

jo

[Former Member]

hi eliana,

>we didn't have the possibility to choose which software framework our

>applications were based on, because the projects specifications were specifically

>designed to fit our software house' requirements to have a full SAP Mobile

>Certificated app. set.

are you creating an MI application? having you application certified sometimes is

an advantage for marketing. but i think the application is only valued if it solved the

problem that had been posed by the requirements.

>Performance optimiziation and testing took away a lot of time as you know the

>consequent disadvantange of not having a standard j2ee or j2me framework

MI (formerly ME) was created to use lightweight protocol - HTTP and I think is just

a little bit older than the first release of the J2ME specs.

>Apart from this, we had to implement a certain kind of "sort engine" emulating

I think you can use the SortOrder interface for this case. did it not cater to your

needs?

regards

jo

[Former Member]

Hi All,

As I said, unfortunately we didn't have the choice to decide exactly what software platform to use in such dethails, we were obliged to follow strightly the project specifications obviously put together by people who have not all the necessary technical skills to preventivate all the possible situations such as this.

The project is based on these specifications:

- OFFLINE mode (clients are connected ONLY when in synchronizing mode, all the work within data must be managed locally on the device)

- SAP MI 2.5 sp13 compliant

- WAS 6.40

- Satisfacting performances

- Order capabilites.

By saying this and after reading your answers I thing that the range of possibilities that is offered is a lot more restricted...

Finally, talking about SortOrder, JDK 1.1.8 does not implement a satisfacting version of that...

We talked and talked but if you would like to see or have an idea of what we created up now, please follow this links (sorry, for the italian language):

<i>

http://www.icm.it/pdf/myMobile@icm_presentazione_270906.ppt

http://www.icm.it/html/mds.html</i>;

Best regards.

[Former Member]

hi Eliana,

This is the Link to download the latest version of CrEme JVM. Here you go!

http://www.nsicom.com/Default.aspx?tabid=289

It will ask for your SAP Partner/Customer id. Once you give that, you are through!!!

Good day.

Regards

Ak.