What is needed and what costs for MSDS authoring, linked to B1

[Former Member]

Good Morning,

We are presently in the process of getting a SAP B1 implementation into place, combining with a chemical/process industry add on. One of the elements which is yet to be fully discussed is the need for safety data sheet production. At this time, we have a standalone system into which we enter our chemical formula/recipe, together with physical parameters and the system then produces a hazard classification, transport classification, label information and safety data sheet. The system is functional but will not talk to B1, which is a big negative as the whole point of the B1 system is to bring independent systems together.

I have done a bit of reading but am yet uncertain as to how the EHS system and associated 'things' help me. Within the process manufacturing add on which we use, we will be able to define hazard info and attach MSDS, so that we can track and produce labels. However, this still leaves us having to modify both the SAP and H&S system, every time a change is made. So can anyone give me a very quick lowdown on what, under the SAP banner, we can use to not only manage the MSDS, but to create them?

I have seen some info about cloud solutions along these lines and they seem to be a case of our producing the recipes and physical data and then someone else creating the MSDS and then sending it back. However, I have no idea at all about the costs and whether it is remotely viable.

I would appreciate any assistance so that I can have some facts under my belt when we address this properly, with our software partners.

Many thanks

Adam

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Adam

I do not 100% understand your scenario.

PLease explain: what do you mean with "SAP B1 implementation into place"

PLease xplain: At this time, we have a standalone system into which we enter our chemical formula/recipe, together with physical parameters and the system then produces a hazard classification, transport classification, label information and safety data sheet. => what kind of system we are talking about SAP or Non SAP?

PLease explain: However, this still leaves us having to modify both the SAP and H&S system, every time a change is made => I do not get your point here

Basicly this is the story:

Some company does have a SAP ERP in place. Using this system you can use as well (after some topics ned to be clarified etc.) SAP EHS for

a.) MSDS generaiotn

b.) Label generation

c.) Danegrous goods management

and lots of other stuff as well.

Take a look at:

This document rties to bring together many important topics as discussed here. Some "rare" examples exist here in context of "distributed SAP" systems or of one SAP ERP system and non SAP Systems which should be linked to gether

The "road" you would liek touse depends on the IT startegy of your company. Clearly SAP provides very useful services/solutions in Cloud etc. which you can use as well. These solutions/services inlcudeMSDS/SDS generation and lot of other topics. Just get in touch with SAP contacts to get an understanding of the existing solutions/Services etc.

C.B.

[Former Member]

Christoph Bergemann wrote:

Dear Adam

I do not 100% understand your scenario.

PLease explain: what do you mean with "SAP B1 implementation into place"
We are finalising the details of putting SAP B1 into the company, the system is not yet in place, just planning stages.


PLease xplain:  At this time, we have a standalone system into which we enter our chemical formula/recipe, together with physical parameters and the system then produces a hazard classification, transport classification, label information and safety data sheet. => what kind of system we are talking about SAP or Non SAP?
It is non-SAP and the vendor does not have any support for integrating with an external system.


PLease explain: However, this still leaves us having to modify both the SAP and H&S system, every time a change is made => I do not get your point here
With the existing system, for every product, we need to enter a complete formulation, into that system. When we get B1 implemented, we will have to re-enter all of that data into SAP. Every time we make a change, we have to make it to both systems which is both time consuming and gives the potential for error.

I will read through your link in somewhat more detail.

For a bit of perspective, this will be a small scale B1 implementation with only a small handful of staff, so the budget is moderate. The existing system was an equivalent of $6k with about $1500pa costs to do most of what we needed. We are wary when it comes to SAP solutions because they can quickly spiral and, (not having yet read your link in detail) I had read all sorts about the need to setup rules, setup templates (etc) within EHS which is something that will be time consuming and thus costly.

All the best

A few thoughts on the link - as I had previously felt, from my various readings, boy is this complex! With our existing system, all you need do is define your ingredients and their hazard phrases and such, define your recipe and some basic physical parameters. The system then calculates everything and, more or less automatically produces an MSDS. This is the way the system is sold, it doesn't need much mucking about to make it work. It looks to me that, with the EHS system and various modules, you can probably achieve this but there is no easy solution to make it work. You need an expert to set it all up, you need someone to define rules, create WWI templates (etc). This is almost certainly a big job which is way beyond our means. I suppose what I am looking for is some way to quickly and easily add MSDS generation to a B1 system, something like our existing system, but which integrated with B1.

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Adam

I try to provide hints/answers as best I can.

1.) in context of:

A few thoughts on the link - as I had previously felt, from my various readings, boy is this complex! With our existing system, all you need do is define your ingredients and their hazard phrases and such, define your recipe and some basic physical parameters. The system then calculates everything and, more or less automatically produces an MSDS. This is the way the system is sold, it doesn't need much mucking about to make it work. It looks to me that, with the EHS system and various modules, you can probably achieve this but there is no easy solution to make it work. You need an expert to set it all up, you need someone to define rules, create WWI templates (etc). This is almost certainly a big job which is way beyond our means. I

Yes you are completely correct,. To set up SAP EHS in such a way to generate e.g. MSDS; Labels and many other stuff is a big task; no doubt

2.) In context of:  SAP B1

I habe issues with the text "B1". I sssume that you are tryingin to implement SAP ERP  and you just call this "SAP B1". If this assumption is true. With SAP ERP you will get technically EHS (topic of license need to be discussed with SAP; and yes you can then do the set up of EHS

3.) In context of:

I suppose what I am looking for is some way to quickly and easily add MSDS generation to a B1 system, something like our existing system, but which integrated with B1.

This is now my assumption: you have a "legacy system" in place there you generate MSDS, Label and other stuff; there might be the potential need to integrate this legacy system with SAP ERP; but as written by you there are "less" interfaces supported by legacy system

One theoretical set up could be as:

You use SAP ERP for any logistivc process piece; you establis a "primitve" very simple EHS set up; you tryo to move your "MSDS", "LAbels" andother stuff as e.g."pdf" files to SAP ERP and integrate them inSAP ERP.

Now SAP ERP e.g. can trigger MSDS dispatch within SAP (not using the legacy system) but you wil still maintain data in your legacy system. This is not a "good" but potential approach. The reason is simpled and explained by you:

If you would like to use the full capabilities of SAP ERP you need ot "recreate" as well reciepes in SAP; and then you are doing "double maintenance"

But clearly: this kind of scenario is possible (but on long term you will not be happy with it).

IN most cases: If a company tries to get rid of a (or more than one) IT system by using SAP ERP in most cases a wave approach is used (accenting ! an interim period !) to makesure that may be after 3 years of using this scnerio you can get rid of the legacy system. One (of the many reasons) is you pay license fees in using SAP ERP and your legacy system; normally most of managers are unhappy with this situation

C.B.

[Former Member]

Thanks Christoph,

It may be that a very simple miscommunication is confusing matters - "B1' is meant to suggest "Business One". We are not looking at the full SAP ERP system.

I think that it is clear to me that using the EHS solution to create MSDS is just not going to work for us - the costs are going to be far too high. For our requirements, I believe that the management can be handled adequately by the industry specific add on (which looks like it will be 'processforce'). Likewise, this add on allows is to easily store information which can then be integrated with the label printing software. It is just the actual authoring which is the problem.

Ideally I would prefer not to have to keep paying licensing fees for the legacy system and having to do manual translation of data to the B1 system. I am surprised that there isn't a straight forward add on which can do the classification calculations. The rule sets for this and the phrases are all pretty straight forward and there are obviously multiple non-SAP systems which can do it easily enough (such as the one we presently employ).

All the best

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Adam,

now after clarification of the term "SAP B1" =>

1.) I do have 0 experience with SAP Business One. I just checked: Getting Started - SAP Business One 9.1 - SAP Library

etc, This is a solution for small and midsize companies without any EHS capability: I was not able to find the "add on" which you have mentioned for chemcial indsutry...

Not being the expert of SAP Business One: It is quite obvious (from my Point of view) that you need help from e.g. SAP or other providers. If you do the set up of SAP Business One and you still have the need to generate MSDS etc. there seems to be no other optionin place as to go on in using your existing legacy system. Now the other topic comes i place. if there is no "Interface" exist in this legacy System you lack of one important process step. Normally the Story is like:

based on sales order you will Need e.g. MSDS, Label etc, NOw you Need to look foroptionsusing SAP Business One to "trigger2 your legacy System to "print" something. This can be a challenge.

If you can not design an "IT Interface" you have some Kind of "double work" as you Need to Analyse data in SAP Business One and the you Need to trigger the printing inyour legay System manually.

Nobody will be happy in using this Scenario.

I can confirm that the costs for SAP ERP and EHS set up will be quite high and there is a good Chance that the management will not support this

C.B:

PS: for Legacy system: can you generate MSDS/SDS or label at least as "pdf" file? May be there might be an option to "upload" this to SAP Buisiness One system this

For SAP ERP: this is a quite commong solution and user very often to get rid of old legacy systems; and there is a standard approach to use the "pdf" files to integrate in EHS and to do then MSDS/SDS dispatch from EHS