Creating/Modifying adapter?

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Friends,

Is it possible to create a new adapter or modifying the existing one using <b>ABAP</b>?

Thanks,

Abdul

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Abdul,

No, Most of the adapters except idoc and http reside in java stack. Hence you can't create or modify xi adapters using abap. in truth xi adapters and jca 1.0 compatible and has nothing to do with abap!!

regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim · Accepted solution]

Hi Felix,

Thanks for your reply.

Well I heard XI Runtime is primarily the ABAP Runtime.

Is it so?

What is the scope of ABAP in XI?

Whether it is less compared to Java or both have equal scope?

Thanks,

Abdul

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Abdul,

Though XI runtime is primarily abap runtime, XI has nothing to do with it in design time. abap in xi is only used in abap mapping and abap proxies. That too can be overridden by java or xslt mapping. There are only java functions which u can create and not abap functions. You can use a rfc adapter to connect existing abap function modules. hence i would strongly say that xi is 95% java and only 5 % abap. Even without that 5% he can work in xi seemlessly.

regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim · Accepted solution]

Thanks Felix,

Actually i am an ABAP Consultant i much curious to learn XI.Earlier i posted my question "Prerequisite for learing XI".There,some XI experts have mentioned that you don't need to be a Java guru for working in XI rather you need XML,XLST,SOAP and other messaging tool knowledge.If you don't mind can you please tell me what are the necessary Java skills and other skills needed to start learning XI.

Thanks Again,

Abdul

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Abdul,

Core Java is more than sufficient. It is mainly for writing some small java fucntions. apart from that, if you want to develop more in xi you need to know more about ejbs, since a ejb is deployed as a module in xi. hence if you want to grow in xi, you must know core java for sure. But i am not here to disappoint you. Though java is much needed, most of the work here in xi is how to use the xi tool rather than coding in xi (similar to j2ee development). Hence, you can have enough confidence to start learning in xi!

Having abap knowledge will certainly help you much

regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim · Accepted solution]

Hi Felix,

Thanks a lot for your clarification.

Cheers,

Abdul

[Steven_UM · Accepted solution]

Hi,

XI is a mixed implemenation of both ABAP and JAVA parts ... claiming that XI is about 95% java is incorrect ...

The XI runtime engine is written in ABAP, IDOC and HTTP adapter are completely written in ABAP, lots of XI customising is sitting in basic SAP tables ( so ABAP stack ), BPM is completely written in ABAP, etc ...

The JAVA adapter framework is used for most of the adapters and as such most of the adapters are build using java.

I would more say the balance is about 50% for XI.

As far as the real mapping is concerned, you are indeed right to say that most of it will end up as java code - unless you are using XSLT or ABAP mappings ...

Regards,

Steven

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Steven,

I am not claiming XI as 95% java code but, from a xi developer prespective he is going to endup doing 95% java coding and 5% abap coding!

regards,

Felix

[former_member187339 · Accepted solution]

Hi Felix,

<i>>>I am not claiming XI as 95% java code but, from a xi developer prespective he is going to endup doing 95% java coding and 5% abap coding!</i>

What I feel is that as far as XI is concerned you should have a good command over the ABAP language too. Since XI is providing a platform for writing Java code (in addition to other alternatives like XSLT) you can also <b>use JAVA</b> in your design.

<i>

>>more in xi you need to know more about ejbs, since a ejb is deployed as a module in xi</i>

As a beginner, you need not be well versed with ejb's, as they are used only during module development.

A developer with a JAVA background and very less knowledge in ABAP, feels that he can harness the power of java for development in XI. He may not be fully aware of the power and flexibility of ABAP.

So I am with Steven and I feel that XI DEVELOPMENT is 50% ABAP(may be more than that say 60-70) and rest JAVA.

Regards

Suraj

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Suraj / Steven ,

Can you mention anywhere in xi, abap code is used, apart from abap proxies and abap mapping (which can be done easily in java)?

I believe abap coding is not at all required in xi. transactions in sapgui is really needed for debuging but not abap coding. May be creating a function mudule is necesary but that is not a xi consultants job!

best regards,

Felix

[former_member184154 · Accepted solution]

Felix,

ABAP stack is governing the real full-life of each message and integration process. Knowledge of ABAP objects in my case was very very useful, as I had to extend the way in which XI deals with messages, building custom tables, custom ABAP Obj classes and big BSP App on top to manage the whole.

Of course this is extremely special development, but the <i>real engine</i> in XI is strongly ABAP based.

Regards,

Alex

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi

Continuing on the same debate. There are both ways of looking at it. One can be XI Consultant even if he knows only Java and not ABAP. Also the vice versa equally holds good.

As there are different roles based on your skill set. One role of an XI consultant is also to develop proxy, configure IDoc scenario, and use the standard IR (Data Types, Message types and Message Interface, and also use the standard Message mapping). Even in Message mapping most of the cases can be done by just using the standard functionality and in some by using simple Java functions.

I would rather say that if you wish to be XI Developer then Java knowledge is required, but if you wish to function as an XI Consultant then understanding of SAP system and in particularly ABAP knowledge is required more then anything.

Regards

Paresh

[abdul_hakim · Accepted solution]

Hi Mishra.

Thanks for your reply..

Abdul

[Steven_UM · Accepted solution]

> Steven,

> I am not claiming XI as 95% java code but, from a xi

> developer prespective he is going to endup doing 95%

> java coding and 5% abap coding!

> regards,

> Felix

Hi Felix,

Purely from a mapping development perspective you are absolutely right ... Ideally you shouldn't do any programming at all ( use visual mappings or XSLT ) - in reality you probably end up writing custom java methods for achieving whatever is missing in the standard mapping capibilities.

Nevertheless, in general, any customer would expect from an XI consultant to know the SAP system itself and ABAP. We are not only talking about XI but also the SAP backend system(s) ( which should normally be involved in any integration scenario ).

As backend SAP systems are involved, you end up playing with IDOCS and RFC's and everything involved with that ...

Like somebody else said it nicely ... an XI mapping developer can get away with no ABAP skills, an XI consultant better should know both stacks ...

Regards,

Steven

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Alex,

>>ABAP stack is governing the real full-life of each message and integration process

I strongly agree with your stmt. I never disagreed your stmt.

What I ment is that, from a XI enduser / developer / consultant prespective what he deals with is mostly with Java and not abap. I had always favoured knowing is better!!

I tried to diff transactions from abap coding.

regards,

Felix

[former_member184154 · Accepted solution]

Felix, Guys,

We'll never end this debate maybe. But just to clarify with a nice example, being an XI'er without knowing ABAP sounds like an italian chef not using pasta. Of course italian cookery is made of many other very good ingredients, but pasta is the foundation

Cheers,

Alex

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Alex,

You had taken a wrong example.

>>an italian chef not using pasta. Of course italian cookery is made of many other very good ingredients, but pasta is the foundation

We are speaking about using or developing in XI and not what is the foundation of XI. If that is the case pasta may not help him consume his cookery. (just kidding)..

In a hetrogenous env SAP is just one among many many other env XI is going to intergrate. There is only 2 adapters among the other default adapters to communicate with SAP.

If there is favour only for abap, i have a strong feeling that most people here are very narrow minded with intergrating only SAP systems and not other realtime hetrogeneous systems. Even here i can go with java without using Abap!

Why don't anyone deny my statements with strong evidence such as links, but simply saying the same thing? But I can prove the reverse from the weblogs of the people who posted in favour of ABAP itsef!

regards,

Felix

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi,

I do not understand what is the need for an XI consultant to know about ABAP/Debugging etc.,

Say for a scenario involving IDOC transfer from R/3 to another SAP system,i need to know

1.How to create or regenerate IDOC(which we will do in we19-no need of code)

2.To generate RFC Destination,Port and Partner profile in sender and receiver R/3 systems which could be done through sm59,we21,we20

3.For monitoring i have to know about the status codes which is possible in we02/we05/smq2/smq1

4.In caes if you are going to deal with queues still you need to know some Transaction codes.

Note that for all the IDOC stuffs and RFC stuffs related to XI,we need to deal only with the Tcodes and not with ABAP codes.

I am very eager to know where you use ABAP coding in IDOC

and RFC in XI consultants perspective.

Thanks and Regards,

Vasanth.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Vasanth,

if everything works fine in your scenarios you only need some transactions. However as soon as some errors appear, you might need to debug, to find out the reason for the error. As an integration consultant you might face this problem. Ok, you could always ask an ABAPer, but do you always have an ABAPer with you? I don't, because my customers believe, that an integration consultant should be able to work within R/3 as well...

best regards

Christine

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Christine,

>>> an integration consultant should be able to work within R/3 as well...

Yes,ofcourse an Integration consultant has to work within R/3,but not with ABAP codes in R/3.Even for debugging any error related to IDOC/RFC scenarios,it's enought to look through the tcodes and find what has happened but not in ABAP codes.Again i am very eager to know where you have faced a situation to debug an ABAP code for your IDOC/RFC scearios pertaining to XI.

Thanks and Regards,

Vasanth.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Vasanth,

again, i have debugged RFCs. For example there are a lot of standard RCFs / IDocs / ABAP proxies by SAP and there is some documentation on this. And then you use this RFC / IDoc / ABAP Proxy according to the documentation but it just does not do, what you expect. Than you can either open up an OSS ticket and wait until anyone at SAP has the grace to answer, or you can debug and see what really happens within the RFC etc.... that is, where i have used ABAP debugging.

I know, that some people are really fixated on their specific role description and if it states, that they don't do ABAP, they don't do ABAP. However my approach is different, i want to solve problems and not handing them over. So if a problem requires debugging, i'll debug

Best regards

Christine

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Christine,

Nice to know that you would debug an RFC code which has problem in it.But this discussion is not about what each and everyone does.This is all about the role of an XI consultant and not about those who have multiple dimension skills in technologies.

Hope in another few minutes you'll say that if the RFC doesn't match my requirement,i'll write my own RFC since i know ABAP because my approach is different...that's good........

Thanks and Regards,

Vasanth.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Vasanth,

i would never go so far as writing my own RFC. Don't tell anyone but i don't like ABAP that much, i like java more

However as i posted now at least 2 times: role of XI consultant to me looks a bit theoretical. Within projects i've never had a role of sole XI consultant. Customers always defined roles of integration consultants, doing mainly XI but also with skills on R/3 and ABAP side as well as on non-sap system side (like Oracle DB, MQSeries, WebServices...). So my point of view comes from this experience. XI is nice to know, but i think XI alone is just not enough.

Best regards

Christine

[Steven_UM · Accepted solution]

Well well well ... this thread is becoming quite an interesting discussion ...

If you want to stick to your firm XI integration role then fine ... you wont need ABAP at all and probably you don't even gonna use JAVA that much at all ( unless you end up writing modules or own adapters ). And yes great if you can have an ABAP developer buddy who will take care of that part when things fall apart ...

BUT ...

after 10 years in the SAP world ( well europe ) I did not encounter 1 customer which is not expecting a SAP technical consultant ( let me stress the word consultant here ) to know ABAP .. And it doesn't matter which product you are using ...

In reality, customers expect that technical consultants know as much about the SAP system itself then about any new SAP netweaver product they are supposed to be working on ... and honestly it is a very HUGE advantage when they do ...

I am only guessing that in Europe the requirements for consultants are clearly different then in your part of the world Felix ... Fine if you get away which such clear job separations but we don't ...

I have seen a lot of postings of people that have clearly experience in several SAP implementation trajects as a consultant and they are telling you the same ...

We can all agree that JAVA itself is a nice enhancement to the SAP world but honestly SAP would have survived without it as well ...

It is only with the introduction of J2EE that JAVA has began to see some maturity for enterprise application development ... ABAP has been there allready for 20 years and will continue to be there ...

I would anybody that seriously considers a technical career in the SAP world advise to get a good understanding of the ABAP stack and if you want to get into some SAP Netweaver products like EP or XI then get a basic understanding of java ...

Steven

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Steven,

Nice that some real SAP Guru (and after 10 years you must be real one ) agrees with me, that customers expect a little bit more than just XI or just EP or just one product.

From my experience it seems that this expectations are not only present in Europe but also in America (North and South).

best regards

Christine

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Steven,

Yes steven, knowledge in ABAP is certainly good.

>>in Europe the requirements for consultants are clearly different than in your part of the world

That is true because there will certainly be a billing if ABAP consultant is included in any project and they will not expect any XI consultant to know ABAP at all since there is a seperate person called ABAP consultant. There is a clear distiction between ABAP consultant and XI consultant. Also, both never interfere. XI consultant just need some RFC/IDoc from ABAPer and thats all. It is XI consultants job to do mapping/modifying the incoming data and push it into the target system (any sap or non-sap).

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Felix,

Can you edit your statements that we are biased towards language?All we are trying to tell you is we cant get away with ABAP when dealing with any SAP products.

You are clearly mis-interpreting the statements and providing wrong perspective.

If you cant edit then remove my name from the list.

Otherwise I need to report this to sdn as you cannot publish my name without my prior consent.!!

[Former Member]

Sravya,

>>Can you edit your statements that we are biased towards language? If you cant edit then remove my name from the list

Removed

>>All we are trying to tell you is we cant get away with ABAP when dealing with any SAP products.

SAP provides all thye necessary TPZs making life easier.

regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

It's been a hearty discussion with the final result I think best stated by Christine Geier.

<i>"...you write, that someone without Java knowledge will not be able to debug a scenario with JDBC adapter. Ok, that's a statement most of us will surely accept. However the same is true for RFC and IDoc. Without ABAP knowledge you will not be able to debug this scenarios (which really is necessary sometimes). So your statement on not needing ABAP is only partially true. We might not need to develop in ABAP ourselves, but being able to debug ABAP code is really important in SAP Integration. And that is what everybody in this thread tried to express. Both is important Java and ABAP, they coexist and so do consultants / developers with ABAP and Java knowledge. However integration within the SAP area using XI will never work without Java but also not without ABAP..."</i>

Having both is always a better bet.

[STALANKI]

Felix,

We can just outsource the java part of it to a java guy who need not understand the business at all.

ABAPers have definetly an edge as they are going to understand the application system very well and the business and it is essential the integrators understand the typical landscape.Lot of ABAPers already know what EDI and what is the business process involved and what exactly happens while integration as they have a prior experience in SAP implementations.

SAP XI is going to be a PIONEER for ESA driven by SAP NW which will be primarily involved in integrating different SAP products and knowldge of ABAP is an edge and I cant explain the statements again and again that ABAP is not just technichal coding.I have worked in 5 life cycle implementations of SAP including XI,BW,ABAP and I know what SAP is and the role ABAP plays in any implementation projects and just not restricted to technical levels.

If you donot want to know ABAP you are just limiting yourself to very small horizon.

There is no question that any SAP professionals likes to moving out of SAP Domain and work in NON-SAP landscapes.Why should I work in non-sap if Iam getting paid high as a SAP professional?

An ABAPer having core java skills will have lot of market and edge than just a J2EE experts in "SAP DOMAIN".

The reason that SAP comes with an ABAP engine is to prove SAP existence otherwise why should be XI having ABAP ENGINE AT ALL !!WHY CANT IT JUST BE AN OTHER WEBMETHOD OR TIBCO TECHNOLOGY???

WORK IN ONE FULL LIFE CYCLE IMPLEMENTATION OF SAP XI WITH ANY OF SAP PRODUCTS.THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT HELPS.

There are lot of talks in the market that SAP ABAP WITH EDIC/IDOC/ALE and have worked in integartion SAP full life cycle implementation are the job profiles which are being prefered in most of the parts in the globe.

If you want to be a SAP professional you cant get away with ABAP and knowing it has lot of edge.

But if you want to restrict your horizon to just J2EE then you are open to.

You implement one full SAP XI cycle yoursel will understand and might re-open the thread..:)..

[Former Member]

Sravya,

>> We can just outsource the java part of it to a java guy

Then, you will end up outsourcing the XI part itself! Remember all the blogs which has java code. can you replace it with ABAP or can you mention what part you will outsource to a java guy.

>>ABAPers already know what EDI

EDI is a general term and not proprieatary to SAP. It is IDoc which is proprieatary to SAP. I believe EDI Adapters from iWay has nothing to do with ABAP. You cannot assume that only ABAPers know about EDI. I know more about ANSI 850 (PO) and 855 (APO) replacing EDI adapters.

>> SAP NW which will be primarily involved in integrating different SAP products

This is not the whole idea of SAP. SAP wants XI to use in a hetrodeneous environment where only one end is SAP and the other several ends are non-sap.

>>Why should I work in non-sap if Iam getting paid high as a SAP professional?

Please don't be more money minded. There are lot of other things. When you choose something, have a clear view of what you are into and not just for the pay. Tomorrow there may be some other boom and the market may differ.

>>An ABAPer having core java skills will have lot of market and edge than just a J2EE experts in "SAP DOMAIN".

SAP had clearly mentioned that it is going to use Java for its process integration.

>>The reason that SAP comes with an ABAP engine is to prove SAP existence otherwise why should be XI having ABAP ENGINE AT ALL !!WHY CANT IT JUST BE AN OTHER WEBMETHOD OR TIBCO TECHNOLOGY???

Your explaination is wrong. The main reason why SAP uses ABAP stack is not to show SAP existence. There is no need to reinvent the wheel when it is already implemented in R/3 using ABAP!

WORK IN ONE FULL LIFE CYCLE IMPLEMENTATION OF SAP XI WITH ANY OF SAP PRODUCTS.THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT HELPS.

How much are you sure that I haven't worked on any one full life cycle implementation of SAP-XI with any of the SAP products?

Well, just because you provoked me a lot, I would like to say one "very simple" and successful implementation of SAP product integration, SRM (CCM)-XI-CCM where both sides are SAP products. All the necessary TPZs are provided by SAP itself reducing the job of a XI consultant. No ABAP code is used. Similarly for every package like CRM, MDM etc, SAP provides TPZs for easy integration. Are you aware of these? I assume you are reinventing the wheel in ABAP.

>>There are lot of talks in the market that SAP ABAP WITH EDI/IDOC/ALE and have worked in integartion SAP full life cycle implementation are the job profiles which are being prefered in most of the parts in the globe.

The above mentioned is the profile of a ABAP consultant and not a XI consultant. I know you are a gr8 ABAPer

>>If you want to be a SAP professional you cant get away with ABAP

True. I don't want to be a SAP professional. I am a NetWeaver professional )

>>You implement one full SAP XI cycle yoursel will understand and might re-open the thread

I certainly had to say what I know in integration domain. I was the key design architect for a integration framework to one of the world's largest banks, integrating a mainframe system with a financial solution (non-sap) using J2EE server and .Net client with XML interchanges, even before steping into SAP-XI. I also know oracle process manager, a little about Tibco. "full SAP XI cycle" doesn't need to have SAP product at one side, yet, I had implemented many and one such is mentioned above.

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Abdul,

I suggest you close the thread as it might be a fun-play for others as it doesnot make any sense at all to anyone.

[Former Member]

Sravya,

>as it might be a fun-play for others as it doesnot make any sense at all to anyone.

Can you please explain that statement elaborately. In your statement who does "others" mean and who does "all" mean? Both are plural. So, who are you refering to?

First, try to answer my question. Then we shall close this thread. Also, please explain how does it make it without any sense?

Best Regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Hi Sravya,

Let us see what SAP says.

https://websmp202.sap-ag.de/%7Esapidp/011000358700004082022004E/Total_ATP_XI_version2.htm#i3

Click through all the course descriptions provided in the above link. I think SAP never gives false information to its consultants. No where you will find "Basic ABAP programming knowledge" required. But all through the course, you will constantly find "Basic Java programming knowledge" as an important and essential prerequisites!!!

SAP itself recommends to know basic java programming before coming into XI and not ABAP! Not even java concepts. SAP had clearly given "Basic java programming" is a prerequsite and NOT abap. No where I can find ABAP.

I am giving proper links and clear evidence. Why don't anyone answer vasanth's and my questions?

If you post that we make statements without any sense, you are directly pointing SAP as if it is giving prerequisites without any sense.

Justify, and think before posting like "fun-play for others". Am I going to get any reward just by making the fellow SDN Abapers like you understand the truth?

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Felix,

Before you make any statements you need to have a base.

What you know about ABAP to make statements?

How many SAP life cycle implementations have you worked on?

All you have is a mis-conception that "ABAP is nothing but few lines of code".No one help you to come out of your ignorance.

Who are you to say who can work or who cannot work in the integration domain?

Learning JAVA is very good and useful but it is not the end of it.Yes JAVA has lot of advantages and market.

Iam also ending the discussion here as we cant help people who think they are the great..:)

[Former Member]

Sravya,

When you attended your XI certification sessions, all my colleagues who were in that class know how "<i>smart</i>" you were.

Never give loose comments.

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Bingo Christine!He is perfectly right!

[Former Member]

Sravya,

You are using java mapping while dealing with IDoc and RFC in your own blog.

/people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/08/18/triggering-e-mails-to-shared-folders-of-sap-is-u

Can you explain where ABAP code is used? I am showing an example from your own blog! You are proving the capabilities of Java replacing ABAP code from your own blog. May be next time you may think twice to post a blog (just kidding..)

Note: I am never against ABAP or anything like that. But, ABAP coding in XI is NOT necessary!

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Felix,

You are completly diverting the entire context.

It is not about accepting the facts..

I donot want any of my statements to be mis-interpreted .

Iam surely coming up with some thing good..soon..watch the space..

You can surely listen any XI experts comments who has worked in real time projects..Iam open to it..:)

It is very uncommon that SAP XI is going to be used in non-sap landscapes...SAP XI is being used in most of the projects where the vendors have one side as SAP...so experienced ABAP with IDOC/ALE/EDI will be an edge...

Again team composition plays a crucial dynamics in the implementation.

connecting to JDBC from XI is no big deal..Core java skills are ok with it..!!

I repeat "SAP ABAPers experienced with WAS 6.20 will have definetly an edge"...and at the same time JAVA developers or even any integration experts can work on XI without java knowledge.It depends on the role that is played by everyone...

Can you hold on for some time so that I could channel is it properly so that entire context will not be mis-interpreted as being done now?

[STALANKI]

Felix,

Iam not afraid of anything.I will counter your questions openly soon in a proper channelised fashion."Debate" is useful when there is a "learning".Otherwise it is useless and the context of thread is not the same.

You can wait and watch the space..I will come out with this topic soon in a proper way!!

[Former Member]

Sravya,

>>Iam not afraid of anything

If you are not afraid of anything, then why am i not getting the answers!?

>> I will counter your questions openly soon in a proper channelised fashion

Can you explain what is a proper channelised fashion other than this forum?

Regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Felix,

This topic is going like anything!!

Let me wait for few more expert comments...

Abdul

[Former Member]

Abdul,

Let us surely wait for a few more expert comments too...

>>Actually i am an ABAP Consultant

I am happy that the question is from a ABAP consultant who is ready to accept the real fact which most of the abapers are refusing to accept!

We must make everyone clear that XI is not to intergrate SAP products alone (only place where abap is used, which even can be replaced using java). But, XI is to intergrate a hetrogeneous env where SAP is just a very small percent. I can totally avoid abap coding and use XI sleamlessly.

When I want to intergrate Oracle and MSSQL, why should I ever write ABAP code in XI? Here too we use JDBC (Java DataBase Connectivity) adapter and not anything like (Abap Database Connectivity). How will anyone who doesn't know about JDBC will ever endup debugging the above scenario.

Even if I want to push or pull data from SAP, using RFC or IDoc, why should anyone ever write a single line of ABAP code to push or pull data? - I assume XI is only to push and pull data between hetrogeneous env and not restricted to SAP alone!.

Thanks Abdul to wait for a few more expert comments!

We must make the other abapers in XI understand the real truth which they refuse to accept!

Regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Felix,

you write, that someone without Java knowledge will not be able to debug a scenario with JDBC adapter. Ok, that's a statement most of us will surely accept.

However the same is true for RFC and IDoc. Without ABAP knowledge you will not be able to debug this scenarios (which really is necessary sometimes). So your statement on not needing ABAP is only partially true. We might not need to develop in ABAP ourselves, but being able to debug ABAP code is really important in SAP Integration. And that is what everybody in this thread tried to express. Both is important Java and ABAP, they coexist and so do consultants / developers with ABAP and Java knowledge. However integration within the SAP area using XI will never work without Java but also not without ABAP.

Regarding your opinion on XI for non-SAP to non-SAP integration, sure it can be used for that, but it is not the main focus of XI and not really its strength. If SAP systems are not involved WebSphere is still the leading integration plattform, followed by TIBCO. SAP is in europe, which is SAPs core market only on 3rd rank in market shares in integration plattforms. XIs advantage is really in the area of SAP integration offering standard content and easy integration.

best regards

Christine

[abdul_hakim]

>>We must make everyone clear that XI is not to intergrate SAP products alone <b>(only place where abap is used, which even can be replaced using java)</b>.

Hi felix.This will not happen.Java cannot ever replace ABAP and vice versa.I don't have any idea about XI.But if you take Custom developements then ABAP will play a smart role than Java.90% of the coding in Netweaver stack resides strongly on ABAP with the exception of EP which is based on Java.Remember ABAP is with SAP for more than 20 years and made SAP as a global leader in ERP.Your above statement seems like it is altogether waste of having ABAP in SAP.We are all in SAP due to ABAP(the most powerful business application programming language).ABAP is the foundation for the whole technology(SAP).May be the scope of ABAP will be less in XI/EP arenas now.But it doesn't mean that ABAP cannot play a similar role to Java in XI/EP in the future.A good example for this is Webdynpro for ABAP which is available in 2004s.SAP has invested billions of dollars for developing ABAP further.

Both Java and ABAP are strategic for SAP.Neither is here to replace the other.Many Thanks!!

Abdul

[abdul_hakim]

>>We must make everyone clear that XI is not to intergrate SAP products alone <b>(only place where abap is used, which even can be replaced using java)</b>.

Hi felix.This will not happen.Java cannot ever replace ABAP and vice versa.I don't have any idea about XI.But if you take Custom developements then ABAP will play a smart role than Java.90% of the coding in Netweaver stack resides strongly on ABAP with the exception of EP which is based on Java.Remember ABAP is with SAP for more than 20 years and made SAP as a global leader in ERP.Your above statement seems like it is altogether waste of having ABAP in SAP.We are all in SAP due to ABAP(the most powerful business application programming language).ABAP is the foundation for the whole technology(SAP).May be the scope of ABAP will be less in XI/EP arenas now.But it doesn't mean that ABAP cannot play a similar role to Java in XI/EP in the future.A good example for this is Webdynpro for ABAP which is available in 2004s.SAP has invested billions of dollars for developing ABAP further.

Both Java and ABAP are strategic for SAP.Neither is here to replace the other.Many Thanks!!

Abdul

[Former Member]

Christine,

>>Java knowledge will not be able to debug a scenario with JDBC adapter

You are right here! I can even use JDBC in a java function where knowledge in Java is the most needed.

>>We might not need to develop in ABAP ourselves, but being able to debug ABAP code is really important in SAP Integration

I am just wondering which ABAP code I had to debug. Let us take IDoc / RFC scenarios. Can you specify one single place where ABAP code is needed?

I don't think creating an IDoc or a function module in abap is a part of XI consultants job. It is an ABAP consultants job. Even if I had to modify data I can do it using Java in XI after pulling it from SAP. That is what XI is for. I believe hardly 20-30 SAP transactions is more than enough. I don't need to know a single line of ABAP code!!

Regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Abdul,

>>This will not happen.Java cannot ever replace ABAP and vice versa

I am talking only in context to XI in using it. I am never comparing Java with Abap in general. I am not even questioning about ABAP's capabilities either.

Justifying my statement

>>We must make everyone clear that XI is not to intergrate SAP products alone (only place where abap is used, which even can be replaced using java).

SAP provides RFC/IDoc Adapters for speaking with SAP. Intergrating is the Job of XI. In the whole process of modifying data and intertrating, where ABAP code is used?

Assume I want to intergrate a html web-page (where data is posted) to SAP R/3. Will any guy say that XI consultant should know PHP/CGI/ASP/ASP.Net/JSP/etc if the html page is developed using that? The above people are really speaking like that. XI consultant should only say that I need this data in this format or as an RFC and thats it. Just because I intergrate a ASP application it is not my job to debug a ASP application.

This above example applies to ABAP too! XI needs just an RFC or an IDOC or BAPI. It is not a XI consultants job to debug a RFC / IDOC / BAPI.

Let us take a very clear example what SAP thinks. Let us take the certification for XI. Have anyone learn't ABAP to get certification in XI? Isn't so obvious what SAP itself have in mind? SAP clearly provides a Java editor but no ABAP editors in XI. What more clear evidence I can give?

Let us take the ABAP mapping itself. Have anyone done a ABAP mapping as such immediately when you install XI? No. You need to add an entry in exchange profile. By default there will be only Java and XSLT and no abap.

>>But if you take Custom developements then ABAP will play a smart role than Java

Please explain what kind of custom development you can do in ABAP for XI?

>>90% of the coding in Netweaver stack resides strongly on ABAP with the exception of EP which is based on Java

100% of coding for PCK is on Java which can push/pull data to XI and even do mapping which is an important part of XI. Most importantly RFC adapters do exist in PCK!

>>.Your above statement seems like it is altogether waste of having ABAP in SAP

I am always speaking in context to XI. Let us take a very basic question. If ABAP is the core of XI, then why does SAP gave a java webstart client and adapter engine in Java and not in ABAP or SAPGui?

>>Remember ABAP is with SAP for more than 20 years and made SAP as a global leader in ERP

Yes, ABAP made SAP as a global leader! But to survive the future it had to rely on Java.

Then why should SAP provide a book "The ABAP Developer´s Guide to Java" from SAP-Press and no Java developer's guide to ABAP?

http://www.sap-press.de/katalog/buecher/titel/gp/titelID-777

Isn't so obvious what SAP have in mind!? What does it mean? A Java developer doesn't need to know anything in ABAP. Instead, he can do it in Java or even call an existing Abap code from Java!

Best regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Felix,

>>Please explain what kind of custom development you can do in ABAP for XI?

I am not mentioning about any custom development in XI here.As i clearly mentioned that i dont have any knowledge about XI.Experts like you should tell me.

I am generally speaking about core business transactions like MM,FI etc where the code is predominantly written in ABAP.ABAP is more matured than any other programming language in handling the business transaction.

>>100% of coding for PCK is on Java which can push/pull data to XI and even do mapping which is an important part of XI. Most importantly RFC adapters do exist in PCK!

I am speaking about the entire Netweaver stack here not just a tool.

>>Yes, ABAP made SAP as a global leader! But to survive the future it had to rely on Java.

Then why should SAP provide a book "The ABAP Developer´s Guide to Java" from SAP-Press and no Java developer's guide to ABAP?

Don't think that SAP cannot survive without Java.As it is cleary mentioned by SAP that it is just a opening up for new technologies.There was an ABAP world before the Java world in SAP.SAP has invested billions of dollars for developing ABAP further.

I think you have not heard a book by our great ABAP Objects author

Horst Keller

which titled

"ABAP

Objects for Java Devlopers".

I will forward it to your mail id.Please check.


>>Isn't so obvious what SAP have in mind!? What does it mean? A Java developer doesn't need to know anything in ABAP. Instead, he can do it in Java or even call an existing Abap code from Java!

Then why SAP is conducting workshops on Techeds with the subject "ABAP Objects for Java Developers".

Your all answers seems like it is a debate between ABAP Vs Java.

I am telling you that ABAP has its own strength in certain areas in SAP which cannot be replaced by Java and Java has its own strength in certain areas which cannot be replaced by ABAP.

A Java developer will benefit a lot by learing ABAP and vice versa.

I dont have anything in my mind like ABAP is superior.

We have to accept any new technologies which are coming into existence.Today Java is with SAP who knows about the future.

I belive that you love Java a lot,its good.But i too love my ABAP(The most powerful business application programming language).

Many Thanks Felix,

Abdul

[Former Member]

Abdul,

>> am generally speaking about core business transactions like MM,FI etc where the code is predominantly written in ABAP

I was configuring SRM CCM-XI-CCM implementation. SAP provides all TPZ files necessary to pull and push data into SRM. There is nothing like debuging abap codes anywhere. similarly TPZ files are available for all function modules!!

>>.I think you have not heard a book by our great ABAP Objects author Horst Keller which titled "ABAP Objects for Java Devlopers".

Really good to know and I found the link on SDN.

https://media.sdn.sap.com/public/eclasses/teched04/ABAP151_files/Default.htm#nopreload=1

>>Your all answers seems like it is a debate between ABAP Vs Java

Honestly I feel like that.. What I want to prove is that ABAP coding knowledge needed for XI is NIL.

>>A Java developer will benefit a lot by learing ABAP and vice versa.

Surely! I never disagreed it, but in XI learning ABAP is not needed since we never use it. Its only some 15-20 at the max 30 transactions (not more than that).

Check the following thread from ABAP programming

It is officially mentioned that SAP Netweaver will support ABAP for business logic programming and Java for integration - Forum post from the above thread link!

You can clearly see that, "Java for Integration" and XI is an integration tool. So, where does ABAP come into XI?

>>We have to accept any new technologies which are coming into existence

It is really a very good stmt from you!

Regards,

Felix

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Felix.

Don't think that i am speaking against Java.Really i don't have anything in my mind like that.Otherwise i wouldn't have asked you like what Java skills i need to learn?.I too love Java.Most people speak as if ABAP and Java are like enemies.It is not true both are like friends and complementing each other.An ABAP consultant will benefit a lot by learing Java and viceversa.

Many Thanks,

Abdul

[Former Member]

Hi Felix,

sure... sometimes errors in RFC scenarios do not happen on XI side, but on R/3 side. Then you might need to debug that RFC. Same is true for Proxies. Coding errors can always happen on R/3 side. There is even a how to from SAP on how to debug proxies on ABAP side....

In an ideal world a XI consultant would not need to look into R/3. But within projects we hardly have an ideal world and so as XI consultant you'll often need to have a look at R/3, too. I've been involved in quite some projects as XI or Integration Consultant and i've always needed ABAP and R/3 knowledge.

It really is important that as an XI or integration consultant we do not only focus on XI but also be able to look beyond or own nose into backend and into legacy systems. SAP always talks about <b>the big picuture</b>, i.e. the whole system landscape. If you're not able to see the big picture, you might be a good consultant but never an excellent one...

Best regards

Christine

[Former Member]

Christine,

You are right but with a small difference.

>>sometimes errors in RFC scenarios do not happen on XI side, but on R/3 side.

R/3 knowledge is an added advantage but NOT abap coding knowledge. I can see that ABAPer will obviously have more R/3 knowledge. But in XI, ABAP coding knowledge is not at all necessary.

>>Then you might need to debug that RFC.

I wonder which client will allow any XI consultant to edit his RFC?

>> Same is true for Proxies.

Yes! But what if I opt for Java proxies rather than going for ABAP proxies!?

>>SAP always talks about the big picuture, i.e. the whole system landscape

It is true! Knowing the big picture is good but not learning it. Knowing 15-20 transactions will make me know the big pciture instead of learning ABAP code. There are ABAP consultants to do their job! I always believe in these famous .. "Jack of all is a master of none!". It is always good that an XI consultant do his job than learning ABAP and doing an ABAP consultants job.

I also believe that process integration is on java mainly for marketing strategy. Then, how would I ever entered into XI? From a java professional, the view towards XI is different. Today it may be XI and tomorrow he can easily switch to any other EAI tools (there are more than 100 EAI tools in the market purely java based) or even oracle process manager (equivalient to xi by oracle) - purely java based. For him the world is always wide open.

But to any ABAPer, I will not say that it is his fate, but it is wise for him to learn Java before coming into integration domain or better not to come into integration domain!

You will soon realize the truth in my statements.

I was in banking domain implementing j2ee frameworks before coming into sap-xi. I never felt sad when I had to leave all my banking domain knowledge. Instead, I embraced SAP-NetWeaver and started learning XI. Similarly, my small advise to any ABAPer is to learn Java before coming into integration domain and the vise versa is certainly NOT true and I will strictly NOT suggest it.

Best regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Look Felix, i'm finishing this discussion know, because it does not make sense to discuss with someone, who is not willing to accept someone else' position.

Maybe it's because you come from a different background, maybe it's because we've got other project experience, but i feel that ABAP knowledge adds a lot of value to an XI consultants profile.

>> Same is true for Proxies.

> Yes! But what if I opt for Java proxies rather than going for ABAP proxies!?

Than make it ABAP proxies in my statement instead of proxies. The thing is, if we want to send data from / to R/3 whiy should we use Java proxies? R/3 app. is mainly (say 95% if at all less than 100) in ABAP, so easiest way is to use ABAP...

>>Then you might need to debug that RFC.

>I wonder which client will allow any XI consultant to edit his RFC?

Obviously debugging does not mean that you are changing code. You just try to find an error. Fixing it is on someone else' plate. Also you might not have the role of sole xi consultant but rather of integration consultant.

Consultant Roles in projects often don't fit to the consultant roles SAP is suggesting. Some customers want to have integration consultants, who can do the complete job, not only the XI part... But that is only my experience and from my experience this is true. Might not be from your experience, but that does not change my opinion.

best regards

Christine

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Felix,

It is not right to compare the fate of java consultant with ABAP consultant.

I know very clearly that java is the industry standard and ABAP is the SAP standard.

This is not fair to compare both since java is wide open to all.

Remember new technologies like j2ee may come and go in SAP but not ABAP which is the properitary.

I wont accept if you make any comparision between j2ee and ABAP.

Because both are unique personalities..

Abdul

Abdul

[Former Member]

Christine,

>>Look Felix, i'm finishing this discussion know, because it does not make sense to discuss with someone, who is not willing to accept someone else' position.

That applies to you too. Before ever finishing the discussion, it is not wise to leave anything un-answered.

First what do you mean by ABAP Knowledge?

ABAP is a language and its knowledge means coding in ABAP. I don't think you are going to deny it.

Next, apart from ABAP-mapping and ABAP-proxies (which I can do it using Java equivalents), where am I going to use ABAP code?

I had already asked this several times in this thread previously, but none seems to answer my question.

>>Obviously debugging does not mean that you are changing code. You just try to find an error.

For trying to find the error, I don't need to know ABAP code inside it.

>>Consultant Roles in projects often don't fit to the consultant roles SAP is suggesting

Then why ABAP doesn't come into the syllabus in XI certification?

>>Also you might not have the role of sole xi consultant but rather of integration consultant

If you are integrating PHP/ASP/JSP/ASP.Net webpage to SAP R/3, are you end up learning PHP/ASP/JSP/ASP.Net?

If you are integrating Oracle/PeopleSoft/MySQL/PostgreSQL/MSSQL DBs to SAP R/3, are you end up learning Oracle/PeopleSoft/MySQL/PostgreSQL/MSSQL?

If you are integrating WebsphereMQ, SonicMQ, TIBCO EMS, Sun JMS to SAP R/3, are you end up learning WebsphereMQ, SonicMQ, TIBCO EMS, Sun JMS?

I feel your company is not giving you the right role as an integration consultant.

Best regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Abdul,

>.Remember new technologies like j2ee may come and go in SAP but not ABAP which is the properitary.

You are right. I am never comparing ABAP with java. I am never against any languages. What I am trying to explain is that, in reference to XI, knowledge of ABAP coding is not needed. That's all!

>>It is not right to compare the fate of java consultant with ABAP consultant.

Ya I know that. But i am just telling the view of a Java professionals prespective and his options while comparing an ABAPer in "integration domain".

Again, I am not comparing ABAP with Java. But I am just saying that ABAP coding knowledge is not needed in XI!

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Felix,

You have extremly taken everything in a wrong sense.Everyone here is trying to explain SAP XI is not about JAVA or ABAP.It is about lot of things and majorly an integration perspective.

I think you have a misconception of what is meant by ABAP?

It is lot more than ABAP Mappings or ABAP proxies?That is the reason I asked wether have you worked in SAP implementations?

please be careful about the language which you use .You have gave a statement "95%java and 5% ABAP" which leaded you into controversies.

No body is questioning about anyone's technical expertise.

Everyone is experts in their own areas.

I would have supported my statements with justification that ABAP knowledge will be an edge.

Can we close the discussion here?I think abdul hakim got his doubts clarified.Felix..I definetly know you are a java expert and we can take the discussion off line if you want to debate..:)..

Abdul,

Can you close the thread as your doubts are clarifed so that actual context is not lost?

[Former Member]

Sravya,

Why are you in favor of taking the discussion offline? Are you afraid that you not able to answer my questions which i asked above?

First, please try to answer the question which I asked in my above thread message and then we shall close this discussion!

Best regards,

Felix

[STALANKI]

Felix,

Cool.Donot get biased with any language.SAP provides multi-lingual support to overcome the limitations of one in another.Iam working in SAP XI implementation for a leading UK client and I am an ABAPer and I have not worked with java until this project and the project is definetly going to be a success without much of "JAVA"..:)

I will share my project experience offline and donot post some statements like this in an open forum.Have you seen articles by Thomas Jung?He can do anything in ABAP that java does?

ABAP is not just technical experts..and I mean it..:)

We need to understand the business and once we execute 2 SAP cycle implementations we gain a lot both at tech/business level.Did you execute any SAP projects and implementations?If not please ask your fellow colleagues..They will help you out..

[Former Member]

Hi Abdul,

Hope you get to understand XI better from diffrent perspectives shared by our experts here.

Well, There will always be different opinions coz everybody might analyze it by the stack they wud have mostly worked with or the one they are fond of

Adding my opinion here, Most of the experts who have worked on <i>Real time implementations</i> (Huge scnearios having N number of system) will accept the fact that XI is <i>best utilized</i> in case of one of the ends (Source or Target) being SAP sytem. I am cautiously using best utlized coz in other environments as well it performs,but SAP systems get the top priority here.

So in that case of SAP systems we mostly use BAPIs,BADIs,RFCs and Proxy communication where <i>ABAP knowledge is required</i>

So as some experts mention you cant arrive at the conclusion that JAVA knowledge alone is enough.

Well, as I said earlier the stack you use for making your scenario might command the knowledge of either one.But Both are necessary backbones and both command equal acquiring of knowledge with respect to XI

Cheers,

Rashmi

[abdul_hakim]

Hi Rashmi.

Thanks for your clarification.

Abdul

[Former Member]

Hi,

There has been much support for Abap but let me ask one simple question which I had already asked.

• Can anyone list any one area where ABAP coding is used apart from abap-mapping and abap-proxies?

Please remember, transactions may inturn call ABAP programs. Just because it calls a abap prg it is not necessary for anyone to know about abap coding.

ABAP may the heartbeat, but the brain is Java There are substitute available for heart in the market but not for brain (just kidding)...

Let me give u a small idea. Eg., just because VB is developed using VC+, it is not wise to learn VC+ instead of VB.

>>I have not worked with java until this project and the project is definetly going to be a success without much of "JAVA"..:)

Why are you using a JCo in XI mapping, when you say you can achieve it using ABAP, in your latest blog? Can you use ABAP there or does XI has anything like abap editors similar to Java editors? Then why are you shouting ABAP! ABAP! which is out of context to XI.

>>Have you seen articles by Thomas Jung?He can do anything in ABAP that java does?

It is not about ABAP Vs Java in general but, it is in context to XI!

>>Did you execute any SAP projects and implementations? If not please ask your fellow colleagues.

Be dare to ask such questions. You never know how much your opponent knows and what he exposes in weblogs and forums. Such a question may target it personally and I had to "you are no where near my java experience and my sap-xi implementation". First learn to ask the question correctly. SAP projects and implementations doesn't mean XI at all. so what are you trying to ask?

If you are an expert then answer by small question mentioned above.

regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Hi,

There is a small misunderstanding in what is ABAP knowledge. I strongly differenciate SAP knowledge from ABAP knowledge!

ABAP knowledge is not SAP knowledge. What I ment is that usage of ABAP coding (apart from ABAP proxies / ABAP mapping) is totally 'NIL'. But the case is different with Java. You need to know Core Java to write even a small function where ABAP's role is totally NIL. For configuring IDoc/RFC and other SAP related stuff, ABAP knowledge is not necessary! Its only SAP knowledge that is needed!!

ABAP knowledge means coding in ABAP and SAP knowledge includes transactions / process and work flow etc.

I will strongly say that in XI, ABAP can be totally avoided or replaced my Java but the vice versa doesn't hold true!!!

Sravya: You posted a blog giving limitations of XI. can you u use ABAP functions there to overcome those limitations? Give me any abap proxies (or) abap mapping to me. I will give the java equivalent for it or procedure how to in java without using abap!

Regards,

Felix

[Former Member]

Hi Felix

I strongly disagree with your view point and specially with this statement.

''ABAP knowledge is not SAP knowledge'' ABAP is all about knowing SAP Process/Transactions and making the most out of it.

XI is just an Integration platform to integrate SAP System. One can play on it, even without knowing any Java and in some case take the help of Java Developer for few scenarios (I am talking from an SAP XI Consultant perspective not as an XI Developer)

In the end it’s the SAP System which has to be tied up either by using Proxy, RFC, IDoc. And it’s all ABAP stack there and knowing ABAP knowledge is required then Java, looking it from SAP XI perspective.

I am sure that I don't have any misunderstanding in knowing what is SAP and ABAP knowledge.

In fact in some cases like MI, the MI Webconsole which is a part of Java Stack will be replaced by ABAP stack in near future as SAP thinks that it has not solved any specific purpose which cannot be delivered by ABAP stack. So it’s being replaced.

This is just to stress my point that knowledge of both ABAP and Java are required if you wish to jump into XI. Depending upon your skill set you can choose your role, but there is no hard and fast rule in SAP XI world. And certainly the percentage of 95% does not hold good, infact it can be the other way round knowing 95% ABAP and only 5% Java can solve your purpose as well.

Regards

Paresh

[Former Member]

I agree with Sravya -- XI is not a coding tool. In fact, SAP doesn't teach a single line of ABAP or Java coding in the XI related class. XI is mainly an integration platform which consists of a lot of integration technologies that does not require a XI consultant to do any coding. People who came from integration background (than application development background) are likely to find out most integration tools on the market do not provide any coding help. Coding are required in many cases (be it java or ABAP) in XI projects, but should be assessed only on an exception basis. That is also what SAP Integration Builder provides -- a configuration driven enviornment. Java or ABAP development are done within separate tools such as DevStudio or Workbench.

Just my 2 cents.

[abdul_hakim]

Hi SRAVYA TALANKI and WALLACE SU,

Thanks for your comments!!

Abdul

[former_member184154]

Hi all,

I just insist on my position: ABAP is still the beating heart of every SAP System*, including XI, so I really think <b>a good XI guy should not live <i>ignoring</i> ABAP</b>.

• EP is an exception, but how many projects have you seen where beside EP you had no other SAP Systems like BW, SEM or R/3?

<i>But this is just philosophy... :-)</i>

Cheers,

Alex

[STALANKI]

Felix,

I have a slightly different opinion.XI is not a coding tool but we need to look at it in a architectural view how well we can leverage the benefits.Good understanding of business and technology is a must and an ABAP knowledge will be definetly an edge as they would already understand business to an extent(ABAPers are not just technical experts)..Seeing the power of SAP support on both ABAP and JAVA.Any ABAP developer does not take too much time to get comfortable with core java as ABAP objects are going hand in hand with java.I would agree to your point when you talk about SAP EP(Java plays major role)..etc..but not SAP XI.