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author's profile photo Vadim Kalinin

Strange mission "Virtuoso"

I can see a mission Virtuoso in my Available Missions list. The description is not clear:


Prerequisite missions: Skillful Solver, Skillful Blogger

You sure know your stuff! Your content shines and you are recognized for the highest level of quality across multiple tags and topics. You're a consistent, active, quality writer, and other members noticed."

By the way, other mission descriptions are not clear in general:

"Grand Master Solver

Prerequisite mission: Master Solver

You tirelessly answer community members' questions. Many more of your answers are accepted."

How many??

"Ripple Effect

When you speak, people listen! You have a rippling effect on the community when you publish a blog post. When you push publish, the community notices within minutes, and the trend continues over time."

No indicators...

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  • Nov 13, 2018 at 03:30 PM

    Hi Vadim,

    I think you've been around this community long enough to remember when we rolled out the original mission set back in 2013 on Jive (seems like yesterday, but oh so long ago!). Back then we were a lot more specific about the exact requirements needed to fulfill a mission, and the result was, unfortunately, a concerning amount of cheating and creation of "noise" in the community as people focused just on meeting the mission requirements.

    After analyzing what was going on, we took the step in 2014 to revamp our missions in Jive to make them much less specific. As a result, the negative behavior was, thankfully, curtailed.

    So, while we do want to encourage people to keep doing good things in community with our missions, when we relaunched missions with a new set this year, we knew we had to keep the requirements vague, to ensure that we did not once again create "noise" posts or encourage negative (cheating) behavior.

    Hope that helps explain why the requirements are not specific.

    • Nov 13, 2018 at 04:06 PM

      Sorry, but now it will be an unclear award for some unknown achievements :)

    • Nov 27, 2018 at 03:06 PM

      Are the people with insider knowledge of the exact requirements blocked from receiving the badge?

  • Nov 16, 2018 at 08:40 PM

    I'm not sure what's the best way to handle this but FWIW I got a notification that I received Ripple Effect badge but I had no clue why I received it and what for exactly. Don't even remember publishing anything extraordinary. So I just shrugged and forgot about it until I saw this post.

    While I understand the need to discourage "gaming the system", if we want Gamification to encourage positive behavior then how can we do this without people knowing what that behavior is?

    It looks like the approach just shifted from one side to completely opposite. Surely there must be something in the middle.

    As a side note, it would be nice to have some fact based analysis of Gamification effects on SCN/SC in general.

  • Nov 28, 2018 at 09:55 PM

    Nobody is blocked from earning missions, but I can say that we do keep an eye out for unusual activities that indicate cheating, regardless of who performs them. And we welcome any feedback that directs our attention to potential cheaters.

    Regarding the mission requirement descriptions, I'm surprised you all think it's hard to decipher that "You're a consistent, active, quality writer, and other members noticed," for example, means we want people to post content and receive good feedback about it. But I learn new things every day, and if even you folks, who I think of as some of our sharpest, are confused by them, then I'm not opposed to giving the requirement descriptions a once-over to see if we could add some more specificity without causing quality issues or noise. Give me a little time and I'll see what we can do.

    • Nov 30, 2018 at 04:43 PM

      One of the issues, and I'm sure its across the board so maybe its fair anyway.... is that there is no incentive for users to follow-up or close out questions. You must be aware of how many questions get asked and they never reply back to answers, comment or follow-up. I suspect only 1 in ten of the questions I answer ever get marked as answered. So what ever number you set for answering questions, or karma value you use, never counts 90% of the content provided.

      We have asked for YEARS.. for a process to require people asking questions to close them out. I.e. like you can only have 5 questions open at a time thus forcing you close old ones.

      We want to encourage good content (blogs and answers) and we want people to contribute as active members... how about encouraging those people getting answers from the system to at least be responsible for the content they post?


      • Nov 30, 2018 at 04:50 PM

        Now we have a new issue - question with correct answer is closed without accepting the answer :)

        • Nov 30, 2018 at 05:06 PM

          Yes, but I'd rather know someone actively closed it which meant they actually looked at it rather than assume they never looked at it. And if they closed it without accepting an answer, you could at least prompt them with a question, or a couple of them.

          Like "You have failed to mark an answer correct, continue?"

          If they say yes then you ask:

          "Would you like to provide the solution you found to the board for the betterment of the community?"

          If they say no, then ask

          "You mean you want to be a total jerk and not provide any feedback after people volunteered their time to try and help you?

          If they answer yes, you say, "Ok, thank you" and you take away 10 karma points.

      • Nov 30, 2018 at 05:45 PM

        Hi Craig,

        Don't think that we didn't consider creating a mission to accept answers. We did, of course! And that request has come up several times in the past. The answer always goes something like this:

        I can already hear the outcry now when OP then create questions just in order to be able to accept the answers so they can earn badges. Those "noise" questions would drive you all crazy, because there would be a lot of them. So unfortunately, that issue is not one we can easily tackle with a mission.

        • Nov 30, 2018 at 06:00 PM

          Who is the author of the mentioned answer? :)

          And I do not understand how it will affect creation of noise questions. How it's different to "Solver" missions (based on accepted answers)?

          Do you mean that somebody will create a meaningless question, wait for the first answer and accept it? Simple job for moderators!

          • Nov 30, 2018 at 06:04 PM

            Maybe there's a misunderstanding here? The suggested mission would reward OPs for accepting answers; it would not reward those who post answers. Solver rewards those who post answers that are accepted, not sure I see how that can lead to noise questions to nearly the same degree. Or maybe I'm not following you.

        • Nov 30, 2018 at 06:48 PM

          Audrey Stevenson I think you misunderstand the proposal. I never suggested, nor have I ever heard of any of the 'regulars' here suggesting a mission for closing questions. OMG no!

          No...I wouldn't want any gamification tied to asking or closing questions!!!

          The proposal is simply to limit the number of open questions you are allowed to have. Personally I'd set it to 2. But something under 10 at least.

          No gamification. Properly closing and providing feedback on a question you ask should be considered as the "price" you pay for getting help here. It shouldn't be behavior that is rewarded.

          I never suggested a mission!


          • Nov 30, 2018 at 06:58 PM

            Misunderstanding is coming from discussion subject - it's about missions :) I agree with a proposal to have some limit - but not for open questions. For questions without accepted answers!

            • Nov 30, 2018 at 07:42 PM
              That would be fine too... even if there was no actual answer the OP can post an answer stating that no answer was found and the business resolved it by doing...….

              Just so long as the OP has to do something with them.

          • Dec 04, 2018 at 02:09 PM

            Deja vu

            I think we had the same discussion with the same solution about 5 years ago.

            • Dec 04, 2018 at 02:15 PM

              HaHa! You know right?

              You wonder how many times a suggestion needs to be made and by how many people before its incorporated in some way.

            • Dec 04, 2018 at 02:38 PM

              Just to clarify: Is anybody here suggesting a "Deja vu" mission? :)


              So many questions already asked before, suggestions already provided before...

            • Dec 07, 2018 at 01:10 PM

              5 years ago? How about every year since 2008, for what I remember...

              How about 'I'm feeling unlucky' mission (as opposite to Google's "I'm feeling lucky"): should be granted to those who don't search before posting :)

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