Skip to Content
avatar image

[A sad status update] Sad how things are going around here...

I confess that I have never been to share knowledge here and have been many times "in the shadows". That's because I've always been reluctant to write things that were not of the high quality that this community expects.

Yes, I am a fool because I hold much knowledge that can be useful and could share here. I have noticed over the months that I have frequented the "new new" community the increasing abstention of users around here. Names that inspired me a lot and made me grow professionally.

As I look at this, I always think: "Does the community really listen to us?", "Why should I write / talk about something if the community itself does not listen to me?" Daily we have a bug on this platform... They really hear us?

I expect to be heard here, I hope others will also be motivated to talk about their afflictions here and that this community will be great again

* Please Login or Register to Comment on or Follow discussions.

53 Comments

  • Oct 18, 2018 at 10:07 PM

    this conversation happens in cycles but happens too often

    Another way to look at it - the "new new" community are now looking to you. You are no longer the new person. You have learned and professional grown. You now have ideas. It's your turn to contribute


    If we all sit back and stop producing quality content because we don't see quality content then we're all guaranteeing quality content will disappear or be a rarity. But then the author won't get the appreciation or respect if we aren't there to read it.

    • Oct 19, 2018 at 12:28 PM

      Honestly, Colleen, why should i put effort and work and so on in a place who isn't listening me?
      Why my voice is ok if i repeat the official mantra and smile and say how things are all great and, if i raise my hand saying it's not so wonderful i meet a rubber wall?
      I'm around, trying to help in Q&A, but the community is not helping me, making so hard to do it, despite all the voices, the people Raphael Pacheco was inspired by (and me too!) just becoming old myths or background noise none cares about.


      Why?
      ------Added-----

      And the quality content is just a buzz word, pure marketing right now: the content has all the same dignity and weight, ignoring the effort put by the OP, ignoring the content itself, the moderation allowing everything with the fake blanket of "we need to be inclusive".
      This is not being inclusive, it's an open field where everyone does what she wants and where people adding value is pared to people generating scrap stuff.

      • Oct 19, 2018 at 12:41 PM

        And this is the classic example about poor content accepted without a blink: seriously, how many threads exist on the topic "After a BAPI you need to add the commit"?

        • Oct 19, 2018 at 05:12 PM

          I agree. I sent a alert to moderator minutes ago.

          • Nov 21, 2018 at 01:44 PM

            But that post isn't breaking any of the 'new' rules for moderation. That's why it's still up. It's garbage, lazy, and I'd go so far as to say it's disrespectful, but it gets SAP more traffic (which is what I think they're after).

        • Oct 24, 2018 at 01:06 PM

          And this is the main reason why I went moderately inactive :-) ....

          As a sidenote, from a technical point of view, the SCN platforms seems to go uphill now. We got working profiles, a blog editor and at least somewhat better search options. None of that remotely worked after the great 1DX-cytaclysm. If we're lucky and things keep improving, some of the old myths might return. That, however, would have to include moving back from the current cannon-fodder-frontline-forums to an expert community.

          • Oct 24, 2018 at 04:56 PM

            a blog editor

            .

            Looks like the old one to me. oO I wish they would work on the editor for questions, answers and comments, because that's the same since the start with almost no options whatsoever. :/

            The blog editor had a lot more to go from the beginning.

            • Oct 25, 2018 at 02:52 PM

              The Q&A has gone backwards and is why I'm no longer participating.

      • Oct 20, 2018 at 09:11 AM

        Hi Simone

        To be clear, I don't believe community is as great as it could be. If it was, the blogs wit the highest views and participations would not be the ones discussing what has occurred in community. My definition of quality content is material that is less sales pitch and goes the next level to tell me how the product will work or lessons learned to get me started.

        My comment of "Another way to look at it" is about finding what is going to work for us. I wish our words were heard prior to Jive migration but they weren't. If anything, it's a lesson I take with me at customer sites now when I hear management make a go/no go decision full aware that usability is not up to scratch (as soon as I hear we can train/fix/extend after go live I know we're up for backlash).

        I made my choice to remain part of community. In choosing this, I am accepting the only way is forward. We do need to reflect on past to avoid repeating (famous quotes out there on that). But in moving forward, I focus on what I can do, and what is achievable and practical things members can do. And one of them is those how have benefited from community by remaining in the shadow can choose to become active and contribute. Writing another blog with the same sentiment as a heap of others out there won't change anything or fix the problems unless they include a discussion on practical suggestions of how to make our community better.

        The alternative is to leave or sit back and comment on the lack of quality and lack of regulars in the community.


        My other comment on "new new" is at some point we are no longer new. New members do come along and from their point of view, we can be perceived as experts and ones they look up to (less so me at the moment with my lack of activity).


        I look at the changes of recently: to me we have been listened to and heard. The questions now is do we like what the message was? I've taken on board that beginners and welcomed and will be educated and so I'm giving that a go. I may not like some of the lack of content quality but am taken a wait and see approach to see if volume starts to help community rebuild and perhaps over time the moderation rules become more restrictive. Maybe they won't but I don't have anywhere else online in SAP community to be so I choose to be here.

        Regards

        Colleen

        • Nov 06, 2018 at 07:58 PM

          No offense. but that's a mind set as an SAP employee you should have.

          As a non-SAP employee and now client of SAP, and with over 20+ years working with SAP systems, I would like to think that SAP would want to listen to us, keep us happy and leverage all this experience. But it seems they continually just want to waste it.

          Craig

          • Nov 06, 2018 at 11:08 PM

            Absolutely no offense taken and you are also correct - it is a mindset you'd hope an SAP employee has.

            However, I still had options as well which included choose to stay and find ways to make it work or stop participating in community. I have no KPIs or work/personal requirements to make me participate. My major barrier right now is time - lots of ideas but struggling to get them on paper to publish.

            I do hope more listening continues and does translate to keeping you all happy. I would hate to see you and the rest of this wonderful group of people disappear along with your years of experience.

  • Oct 28, 2018 at 01:54 PM

    Just to throw my two cents in here.

    The change of the community hurt everybody in the past. Now it's also time to just not see only the bad things. There is also a lot of good things around.

    Profile, Search, Startpage, Tutorials-pages and so on. I cannot name it all, because I see a lot of positive changes the last few month and as I (like most of us do, I suggest) work in IT, I also know all the barriers put between you and the idea and the legal department to get it finally online.

    So, my message is just, keep on being active. I'm pretty sure and we also have the promise from Bjoern Goerke that the updates keep on going and so I have enough trust that it will be finally better than ever before.

    ~Florian

    • Oct 28, 2018 at 06:01 PM

      Sorry, Florian! I can see critically bad thing in Q&A implemented in the last update: removal of hierarchy in comments. Now it's practically impossible to have a structured discussion when answering questions. All other "improvements" are minor compared to this one.

      • Oct 29, 2018 at 08:30 AM

        I'd like to add that this change has also been introduced by just stating that it is "by design" - AFAIK there's no public explanation why the previous behaviour was changed and what positive impact the flat comment structure is expected to have.

        Don't get me wrong: I surely don't expect that the SAP Community team has to "justify" UI changes. Nevertheless, if a feature has worked well enough and is replaced by a limited variant, I think it's helpful to tell about the reasoning, particulary when users clearly state that they consider that change a disadvantage.

        • Oct 29, 2018 at 09:01 AM

          It's "by design" for StackOverflow :) Looks like a decision was taken to make SAP Community Q&A same as StackOverflow. But StackOverflow is not a good example of the platform for SAP related questions.

          StackOverflow:

          Relatively simple questions with full info provided in the question text. Like: "I have the code ... to do ... But the code is generating incorrect result" And number of answers with the code corrections.

          SAP Community:

          Most of the questions are combination of consultancy, business analysis and development. And before you can provide a correct answer you have to ask for additional info:

          Q: I want to copy data from one model to another. And the code ... is not working

          ..R: Please explain the business process in details

          ....R: Data is loaded to model1 from ... then...

          ......R: Then your code is incorrect, you have to use push instead of pull.

          ........R: But I want to launch this code from target model...

          ....

          It's a real discussion, not simply question and answers!

          I have written about this difference in past, but still no reaction.

      • Oct 29, 2018 at 11:38 AM

        Not sure if it'll help but how about opening an improvement request in Ideas as a kind of "online petition" to get this change undone and get nested discussions back? It shouldn't be too difficult to get enough votes to "force" this to be revisited. There are ample examples in Q&A which could be mentioned to highlight why doing away with nested replies wasn't a good decision.

        Cheers

        Bärbel

    • Oct 29, 2018 at 03:07 PM

      Hi Florian

      I agree completely; there is a lot of good stuff around. Personally, I've never used the community as much as I do now.

      This whole discussion is getting really old by now, both figuratively and chronologically. It'd be great if we could all just move on, ideally sooner rather than later.

      Morten

      • Oct 30, 2018 at 08:11 AM

        I can agree we should move on, but this should be an effort from both sides: if the community points out some problems, you (generic SAP, not you Morten :) ) cannot just shrug and say "go on, this is old".
        Because this could be old and cyclic... but just because it's cyclic it's a clear sign something is not working, or not?

      • Oct 30, 2018 at 08:19 AM

        Move on using square wheels?

        • Oct 31, 2018 at 10:11 AM

          I wonder a little bit if all the complaints also end up in an improvement request to have a more official way to adress it.

          Not saying complaints not ok, but I went that way and at least can now track it.

          • Oct 31, 2018 at 10:41 AM

            Florian, see the comments above about privacy issues within the Influence site itself... I stopped making improvement requests and voting there for the mentioned reasons. "Catch-22", as they say.

          • Oct 31, 2018 at 11:09 AM

            The existing instrument influence.sap.com is not OK for tracking requests for SAP Community (company centric). Some other tool has to be presented.

          • Oct 31, 2018 at 01:03 PM

            We tried, check all the old threads, check the requests spread around under the tag SAP Community before and then converted into Influence website.

            Really, i think the community did its best to suggest features and to address the fixes, but it clearly didn't work much well.

            We look like a bunch of old grumpies (and i am one!), but this attitude came from the frustration: personally i've been involved since the Beta step and since there the remarks have been quite... not ignored, just lost along the path.

            • Nov 01, 2018 at 08:09 AM

              Okay, got your point. Was just a question. So let's suggest you could create it by yourself, how should the reporting tool look like. And more important, what kind of tracking do you expect?

            • Nov 01, 2018 at 07:17 PM

              Hello there Simone Milesi - how about this for a trip down memory lane. Inspired by your comments, I was reminded of a pre-TechEd blog post, and hunted down my original comments to see if/how things were going with my comments about what I liked, and what I hoped to see in the community platform: https://blogs.sap.com/2016/09/20/new-mission-available-sap-community-beta-tester/comment-page-2/#comment-58689

              Perhaps there are others who were also heavily engaged in the beta phase that commented in this post as well (a chance for you to also reminisce). My responses were genuine, and as my colleague and friend Audrey Stevenson can attest, the post also led to the chance where we met face to face, and she proudly gave me the green bug sticker for my TechEd 2016 Vegas badge.

          • Nov 01, 2018 at 01:31 PM

            As I responded to Barbel earlier, one can see the long list of improvements suggested, especially in the few weeks after go live (Oct 10, 2016). However navigating there is a bit cumbersome. Vadim Kalinin has the link to how to submit improvement requests written by Kuhan Milroy a year ago. Since the site has changed a bit, the navigation instructions are no longer valid. Jerry Janda used to be responsible for monitoring and maintaining the SAP Community submissions, but I don't think it is his responsibility anymore.

        • Nov 01, 2018 at 03:06 PM

          That's a completely subjective statement. The wheels I'm seeing are nice and round.

          • Nov 02, 2018 at 09:18 AM

            This bring memories back, like when I faced our consultants about the quality of their coding and they answered me "quality is subjective".

            Sure, quality and feelings are subjective, so? Since someone finds all wonderful and shiny we should stop trying to improve?

            Which is the breaking point?

            • Nov 02, 2018 at 09:49 AM

              Subjective statements are perfectly fine, as long as you state them as such. Also, there is a pretty big difference between "the community is very unhappy with the state of things" and "I am very unhappy with the state of things". And I, for one, don't want to be included in the former, blanket statements. You don't like the SAP Community site. You feel that SAP isn't listening to your requests for changes and improvements.

      • Oct 31, 2018 at 03:16 PM
        if we could all just move on, ideally sooner rather than later

        Morten, you don't suggest a "move on" to SCN 3.0, do you?

        And now I better duck and run...)

  • Nov 02, 2018 at 10:20 AM

    Hi Raphael,

    the trick is, to share the knowledge for yourself. If you write down your knowledge for your future you it does not hurt so much.

    I can tell you a thing or two about it. It's extremely dissatisfying if you get so little feedback on great work you do. I wrote a blog about this one and a half years ago.

    My experience is that in an eco system where some of the highest rates are payed (SAP), the willingness of giving to the community is very low. It's even more strange because although most people are not willing to share knowledge, they expect to have to have immediate and free expert support to their problem. That's very annoying...

    Providing the solution often is easy in opposite to describing the problem...

    Cheers
    ~Enno

  • Nov 30, 2018 at 07:30 PM

    Just a side note, but I have always been sad that we have to rely on the SAP community to find out anything about administering SAP - the documentation sucks so bad that customers have to figure out things for themselves or rely on smart people who are generous with their time to provide answers!

    • Dec 12, 2018 at 08:40 PM

      Ugh, don't even get me started on this. Why there are never any screenshots in SAP Help? So many articles feel like I'm in a f*g Myst game. Or "here is 700 page administration guide and a 500 page roadmap". Gee, thanks. My search pattern is always to start with books and SCN, then non-SAP sites, and only as a last resort SAP Help. (ABAP Keyword Documentation is an exception to this and is very good.)

      And it's not just Help. Every other time SAP makes an announcement everyone is like looking around the room "uhm, can someone please explain what it actually means?"

      Of course, this allows the whole cottage industry of books and blogs to exist but come on. You're a Fortune 500 company, hire one person who can write in simple sentences.

      • Dec 12, 2018 at 11:10 PM

        And what documentation they do have, doesn't always get updated like it should - at least on the BusinessObjects side of things that I'm familiar with. And don't get me started on the SDK API documentation where the description of properties or methods is frequently the same as the name, which can minimally useful. I do so much work in the SDKs that I even volunteered at one point to help with the documentation, but it never happened. I guess I'll just have to write a book about it... maybe... after I graduate from the Masters program I'm in....

        -Dell

  • Dec 23, 2018 at 10:52 AM

    Hello Raphael...

    When first coming to the SAP B1 Forum, I hid in the shadows right along with you (as I enjoyed my morning coffees). Started very slowly by answering a few questions, and then Marilyn Pratt got ahold of me. I told her I was certain I did not have that much to share, nor did I think anyone would think my work was of much quality, or (heaven forbid) they would actually use/understand what I was doing.

    For those of you who know Marilyn, you just know how quickly she set me straight in the first few minutes (just read the first few paragraphs) - Starting Again in 2018

    The little bit of work I did here got so fast paced and involved I ended up doing a small Wiki for SAP B1 folks - SAP B1 Wiki for SQL from 2016

    Hmmm - I have tried to update the Wiki, but it doesn't let me (I would go in and update it with new ideas and information over the past years).

    But, no matter what the situation is, my motto is we do what we can and things will, at some point, fall into the right place!

    PS - I still have some questions on how the new things work around here, but onwards we go...because I tend to believe that is the way we all are...

    Best Regards,

    Zal

  • Add comment
    10|10000 characters needed characters exceeded