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Where will the new SCN be?

Dear old SCN Community!

I feel, that this new SCN will end up being the Coffee Corner and Archive for old postings. New postings are not wanted, nor Mentors, nor Community News, nor help from professional to professional. It is sad in a way...

SAP pre-sales approached my client today offering "Value Maps" as a much better and "controlled" services offered by SAP compared to the uncontrolled SCN - where everybody could post. What a nonsense!
One of the first open forums on SAP back in the 1993 plus years was the MIT forum for SAP (i was co-admin at that time). It was back then a vibrant community of people helping and educating each other.

This seems to be all gone and not wanted by SAP any more - but why? Is it that with a good number of new products one would too easily discover that they are actually open source and you could get them for free on GITHUB?

This is a strange way of handling clients, consultancies, users, consultants. Dear SAP i hope it does not fall back on you badly!

At the end i would recommend a SAP users/consultants community to organize outside of SAP such as the User Groups around the world. There a plenty of good community platforms out there for free that would be glad to take on with the good, proven concept of SAP SCN.

Shall we try Diaspora (https://diasporafoundation.org/)

Kind regards

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Nov 04, 2016 at 05:46 AM edited Nov 04, 2016 at 06:09 AM
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I am keeping an eye on alternatives - unfortunately, for functional folks, like me, the existing options are not that many. Sapfans is a wasteland just like it was a few months ago, and the few posts in logistics are not of the kind, which makes me sign in and try to help. There are a few good non-English communities, which look good, but I am yet to find an active English forum for SAP functional topics (I don't like Stackoverflow a lot more than this site, I don't see that as a significant improvement). For many regular forum members (including me) contributing in German or Russian for example, will be challenging.

This diaspora thingy looks nice as an idea (I have never used it though - just watched a few youtube videos), but it looks it is more like social network-related. Will it handle well searching through content with multiple search options/filtering? The biggest asset of SCN (now SAP Community) is the crazy amount of information, which you can somehow search, not just asking/replying to questions.

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Alternatives ? Check out discourse.org :)

Free, fast, open source, responsive, all js and ruby. Notifications, mentions, etc.
Captures on demand, I mean, you make a screenshot, and Ctrl+V into editor, that's all!!! xD

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That's exactly the forum platform Veselina already fell in love with. ^^ It has its negative sides also and you need some time to get used to it. Also no downvoting, just hearts (likes).

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Hey, thanks, I was still wondering what was this platform named :)

All platforms have some disadvantages, but compared to what we have now, almost anything is better - even a phpbb forum with some meaningful ordering and grouping of functional modules plus a few spaces for developers, admins etc., similar to sapfans, sapboard.ru and https://www.dv-treff-community.de/ will be an improvement (of course, if people follow some simple rules, but this is where moderators step in).

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Yeah. We're not on a forum anymore. Feels more like we are on a tag cloud. ^^

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The problem of a diaspora (just to keep your example/proposal :p) towards a new place will be who and how many will migrate.

If a critical mass will migrate, there could be a chance of success otherwise it will be a failure exactly like sapfans.

And it's really blind from SAP allowing/encouraging this kind of last, desperate approach.

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I wouldn't consider SAP fans a failure. It was a failure because SCN became more popular and SAP fans died a slow death as more people went to SCN. SAP fans has been around for many, many years. It was entirely a volunteer site and had no corporate backing except what could be made with some ad placements. It was going up against a giant in terms of support, $$$, developers and a company of built in contributors.

It's a waste land now because there is no critical mass of people to answer questions and give it any input. That could change with a little bit of time, especially if a few people made a concerted effort to simply check the site once daily.

But you'll probably never get any SAP employees to use it. At least not publicly. That said, there were a lot of good consultants that used it. And because there was an anominity to it and no SAP oversite, you tended to get some very politcially incorrect opinions and thoughts that are almost impossible in SCN.

I think such a site has a real place. I kind of wish a modernized SAPfans would show up.

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I don't mind participating in a smaller community - as long as the quality is high enough. By high enough I mean no 'do my job' questions, no 'I have absolutely no idea what I am supposed to do, but I got this job, so...' and more of 'I have this process. I am considering option A and B. I can see these advantages/disadvantages. Does it seem logical to choose A over B in this scenario or there is an option C, which I have missed?'

I am checking sapfans several times per week. If I see a discussion, which is interesting and if I can contribute somehow, I would jump in.

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haven't been there for a long while, since often the same question is posted there and here.

Just checked MM and found one of such questions which was posted on October 26 and surprisingly it had 53 views there and only 12 here. But here it has already an answers while it is without an answer there.

These speaks a lot against the tag concept and its visibility.

An alphabetical board index, website instead of Excel attachment, using the language of the people instead of the doctors , could do wonders for a higher visibility

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It's a waste land now because there is no critical mass of people to answer questions and give it any input.

That's my point :)

I do not want to throw my "J'Accuse!" to SapFans: i used it in the past, when there was SDN but I do not found useful right now or when SCN started to march.

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I, m@t, left sapfans when they obtrusive banner-ad were introduced. I'm quite happy with ad supported sites, but these took up half the page.

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It's too bad that the ASUG communities aren't more open. It's lightly used but I always thought that they more or less copied the old SCN look and feel. They even tried to add some gamification.

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ASUG website is awful and useless.

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The worst part is that some communities of ASUG (and I do not know if all ASUG's sites), charge so that people can participate.

Does this SAP know about this?

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ASUG is a paid membership group. You need to pay your annual dues to reamain active and have access to the online communities and everything else they offer. I don't know that I'd find it worth paying for as an individual.

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So SAP knew that?!

And maybe all "movement" about tags, and deleting some of language spaces maybe it's for increase that ASUG income. :(

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Doubtful. You understand that ASUG and SAP are seperate organizations right? SAP has no interest in ASUG that I know of other than it's "Americas SAP User Group".

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I need to edit my comment, but I can't. :(
Idea: https://ideas.sap.com/D37890

***

Errata
I made a mistake when I asked if "SAP" knows about this (ASUG) situation.

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In the previous platform, I used to look forward to logging in everyday, but now all these discussions are making me sad coming here :(

Time to hit the Friday thread for some cheer!

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As kind of "sticking it to The Man" statement I would love to slam the door and leave SCN for another website. But I believe there is some virtue on actually having the mixed community of SAP and non-SAP people, as long as it serves everyone's interests. E.g. it's great to have official information posted about Launchpad and then have a discussion right there on how it sucks. :) You won't get this on any other site.

From what I've heard from the SCN team members, the strategic vision they have might be a good one (I can't share it but perhaps they can). But, just like many other projects, right now it's getting "killed by execution". Going forward with a half-baked site was a very, very bad decision.

I'll stay for some time in hopes that this will turn around soon (fortunately, holiday season is almost here anyway). But if this continues for a lot longer I'm afraid patience will just wear off and people will start leaving. (By the way, we already lost some active SCN members in the last migration in 2012.)

This is why, I believe, it's really time for the SAP folks who have any investment in the community to start raising this issue within the organization as well. As much as I love to hate SAP, I feel none of us will be better off if we go our separate ways.

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Well said, Jelena, i could not explain or said better!

I hope on the high levels who manage this place will understand the main feeling of the people here around.

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Jelena,

please don't leave. you are one of the few diehards here. the original SAP SCNers are already gone. i don't know why SAP doesn't see the lack of participation by non-SAP folks as a problem. the new community looks cleaner and less cluttered but also splintered and without spirit. maybe it will be back, but i don't know what or who will make it happen.

cheers, greg

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Frankly speaking i do not find new SCN useful any longer, tagging concept will not be useful when there will be no one to join forum. Vanishing spaces is really a bad idea just because one thread could not be posted across many spaces. Is there still way back to old SCN ? just to be optimistic ;)

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SAP Community survived the shock of SDN-to-SCN migration back in 2012. I believe, that was achievable due to the fact that there was no major change in concept. Yes, there were some bugs, glitches, etc., but all this was excusable. Also, as I recall, in a month time traffic was back to normal and even increased. Most of the bugs were fixed and what we got at the end was flourishing community with a lot of well-organized content.

The migration of 2016, though, seems to be irrevocable blow (unless, some brave decision-maker admits the blunder and makes resurrection of old SCN :)) The reason for this, in my opinion, is not only numerous bugs and cumbersome GUI, which eventually may be fixed, but the change of concept for content storage and navigation. The idea of 'tagging', efficient as it can be in some other cases, is completely unfitting Q&A on professional matters. I compare its difference to 'Space' concept to that of supermarket/mall against warehouse. People were browsing for content on old SCN, as they were doing groceries in a supermarket. When you need bread, you go to bakery department, when you need meat - to butcher corner. The same was with Spaces: when someone wanted to make an enquiry on FI/CO, (s)he accessed directly the relevant space, found what was needed or, in case of lack of info, posted a question with anticipation of getting an answer in couple of minutes. Currently, what we have is a warehouse: everything is together gathered in one big pile of Q&A and/or blogs: meat, bread, dairy products, baby diapers, beer and school pencils. Even adding filtering functionality, which is missing now, won't revoke this fact. As a result, I can report a drop of more than 95% in FIN domains' activity, which used to be so vivid and thriving. Another reason for the drop of activity (though, much less important than the subject mentioned above), I do consider the notoriously equivocal issue of 'gamification'. Vanity, being a mortal sin :), still exists in our world and we cannot ignore it. I trust, the disadvantages of old points system were minor in comparison to the benefits it produced.

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Excellent explanation, Eli. I am 100% agree.

Just to add, for me the new 'community' is only the current Coffee Corner, I have completely stopped to find / browse questions using the Questions and Answers or tags. The 99% of content is in a "mess" status.

I can see that many new Blogs come everyday, however does anyone read them??

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I understand missions are going to be introduced shortly.

As for filtering. I click on the ABAP Development tag and I only get ABAP Development. Am I misunderstanding?

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Eli, you can find my blog on this subject on the Mentor Jam, search for "SCN feedback". Interestingly, this migration somewhat reminds me about the move from private Mentor space to Jam. It has never been the same or even close IMHO.

Yes, we can all live with poor navigation and bugs for a while, but, as other posts on the same subject point out - where is the Community? In the previous migration we had a functioning home page, Mark Yolton was posting regularly and some initiatives (like the brilliant "Blog It Forward") to reinvigorate the community stated shortly thereafter. Now I feel like we were just dumped onto this new website with our hands tied and abandoned. It's been a month already and nothing has changed.

It might have been a good idea to keep quiet for a week or so to avoid getting stoned by the angry mobs. But it's time to face the music and whoever came up with the decision should either admit their mistake or explain their strategy and vision.

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SCN is practically dead.

And nobody (of those responsible) seems to care about this.

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Yes the person responsible for this situation left SAP and that's why the community is stuck with this. Let's be honest all the talk about the platform being unsupported is just a bunch of non-sense. SAP could have used a more modern solution from jive or adopted and scaling open source solutions(they could have even bought jive). Instead you get a design run that appears to be run by a marketing group who is stuck with an old-school mentality of over controlling the message. Honestly I don't believe any of this was mistake or poor execution at this point and the concerns about the community being under a marketing organization came to roost.

Take care,

Stephen

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So sad.

Posted a question related to SAP GUI - Business Client.

Actually, I was very pessimistic regarding the possibility to get an answer.

And after 24 hours there are only 2 (two) views.

In old SCN you would definitely get an answer by now.

I wonder how is this reflected in SAP Support incident numbers and KPIs.

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I've been chatting with folk at the SCN... er... SAP Community booth here at TechEd. As I understand there were two drivers for the migration.

1. Jive just wasn't being developed. They thought they were going into partnership, but getting changes was almost impossible. The new platform gives greater control. They can make changes relatively quickly (for a given value of relatively). I've heard rumours that the infamous account transfer problem is being actively worked on. But no-one will confirm or deny officially.

2. I think there's some kind of corporate drive to give all sap.com sites the same look and feel.

As far as the current situation goes, it reminds me of when one of the newspapers I subscribe to went for a new platform - quite similar in look to the this one. First of all cries of pain, including from me. Then people got used to it, and now they kind of like it.

...and, especially when I'm using my touchscreen laptop, I find that it is quite nice to use - once you've figured out how to navigate to where you want to be.

I have noticed that the traffic on the ABAP tags has declined. It is picking up again now. The thing is people need somewhere to ask questions. I think this site has the best chance of achieving critical mass.

Finally, the Value Maps. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. And who are these "experts"? I thought the whole point of sdn/scn/SAP community was to reduce SAP's spending on support. Opening a new support channel with additional employees is kind of going against that, isn't it?

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And adding to my own comment - the quality of questions in the ABAP area seems to have gone up. Maybe the new interface is too hard for people who'd post stupid questions... :-)

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contrary, the quality of questions that have a wrong tag is extremely poor

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@Matthew

Traffic: Of course, I can judge only by domains I'm moderating, but I don't see even slightest sign of regaining the traffic. After one month , it's on the average level of 5% of the Jive platform.

Missions: I don't think that's what the Community needs now. First, it would be better to focus on bug fixing and brining back the moderators and top contributors. I have a bad feeling, though, admitting that it's just on a hunch, that the new concept of missions won't do this work.

Filtering: Filtering is very poor and not working in the most efficient way. Ideally, it should work at the minimum of this functionality: https://ideas.sap.com/D37709 However, in my opinion, as mentioned above, the whole idea of tagging was not successful. I pointed it out already during Beta testing. When accessing Q&A, a user should see by default only what he wants to see, without asking him to perform pre-filtering actions. A workaround, under tagging concept, would be saving filters for Q&A on personal levels and defining default filter. I.e. when a user clicks on Q&A, the default is automatically triggered.

Design: "I think there's some kind of corporate drive to give all sap.com sites the same look and feel". Well, that's the biggest problem. I can understand the logic behind this + it's very trendy. But, that's exactly the point: one cannot use one unique design to different sites, with different content, different audience, different purpose, etc. It's not just a question of 'getting used to new things/look'. I believe, by definition, the audience here is quite dynamic and open to changes. It's a question of efficiency and adequacy of the tools at hand to the goal of the site. Exactly, as you cannot take a design of shopping site and make a newspaper from it. Storage of professional content is not going along with blank spaces, infinite scrolling in one column, even not with the 'tagging' in this particular case.

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SCN had about 500 spaces - now we have about 2800 tags.

Since the mapping is not available people try their luck with any tag that sounds a bit like the old space beside of those who tag their question the first tag that comes up, it seems people just try to get the question launched without spending a thought that this question has to be read and found by someone who can answer, maybe they even hope that moderators are re-tagging the question.

But moderators are assigned to a tag, and they might also just look into tags where they are subject matter experts. And some only react on alerts and do not browse the questions at all.

I spent quite some time last weekend surfing the tags or just opening questions & answers from the menu and scrolling through the content of a day. This way I found countless discussions with wrong tags.

You had your sheep together in the old space, a month ago the wolves opened the gate and your sheep broke out, they can be found anywhere now and need to collected and brought home again.

There are 54 tags in the tag list with "FIN" in the name, like these:

https://answers.sap.com/questions/metadata/23173/sap-financial-services-network-1.html

https://answers.sap.com/questions/metadata/23171/connector-for-sap-financial-services-network.html

https://answers.sap.com/questions/metadata/23170/sap-financial-closing-cockpit-1.html

do you know that there is a secondary tag for Finance, which cannot be chosen as primary tag, do you follow that one too? https://answers.sap.com/questions/metadata/24447/finance.html

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Indeed... I'm aware of all these tags and try to monitor activity in all of them, which is tricky by itself. Before, there were somewhat 8-10 spaces related to FIN (and even this I considered too many; in my opinion, it was sufficient to have 3-4). I'm not surprised and don't blame the users who are confused about which tag to pick; see my example of grocery shop :)

But my main concern that, upon the information at hand, I can see:

a) Significant drop in questions asked

b) Even more significant drop in questions answered or even replied to.

c) Desertion of top contributors

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I popped round to the community booth again just now and suggested that they engage more in the coffee corner - especially on threads like this.

Frankly, unless somewhere else starts to really gain momentum, then I'll stick around here. I have hopes that it will get a lot better.

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I have nothing against a drop in questions asked, honestly I like it if some are scared now and start reading help.sap.com.

This could potentially be explained by the search ahead function when creating questions and better results in the various new searches (sarcasm)

But certainly I can see an extreme reduction of views, a MM discussion with my participation had often over a hundred views in a few hours in former SCN, 76 is currently the highest number of views for a tag with MM (but this is also tagged with FIN Finance and 3 weeks here). The other 2 in the Top3 have some 40 views

In general we should see a multiple of views because of the possible multiple tags.

Yes I agree many of the top contributors are not seen currently, might be the lack of questions, might have to do with the new name for points, or just with a further drop of closed questions. Can be that the tags are not found and they just see the Q&A sea from the menu with its 7000+ questions. Can be the activity stream which had this morning 15 times the same content in a row for me, or missing email notifications when new content is posted (I personally had enough emails with moderator alerts). Maybe they saw their company name in the profile, feared to ask questions under those circumstances, went and didn't come back to see that it has changed (I do the same with new restaurants - wasn't good the first time - no second chance)

Gali said this morning in a TechEd interview that the team is working with high priority on tags and email notifications

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We cannot compare the number of discussion views between the two platforms - in the old SCN each refresh or page visit incremented the view count. The last time I checked, for Q&A only the unique non-anonymous views were counted. For the blogs each page refresh increments the view count - or these we can probably make some comparisons on how un/successful is the new site. The activity stream is next to useless and there is no featured content, which additionally decreases the chance of content discovery. It seems that even the multiple tags and the potentially higher number of people, interested in the topic cannot neutralize the design flaws.

I don't think that the exposed data in the user profiles caused these people to run away - they could've created P-user profiles with no company data if they were so desperate to get help.

I made a small experiment these days - I spent less time here and used it to read all kind of stuff online/offline - pdf technical documentation files, e-books, newspapers in different languages and devices - no eye fatigue, even after several hours. I came here, spent about 30 minutes reading, and my eyes started to hurt.

And I don't even mention the plethora of annoying bugs now. It is just that I value my health more than helping others (it may be selfish, but it is a logical choice).

Considering the quality of the implementation so far and the speed, at which the corrections are made, I don't expect radical improvements in the near future.

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Well, it would be nice to stop re-create bugs already closed.

I pointed out that bug some times ago and Jurgen too (if i remembere correctly) and it was closed.
Now it's open again...

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On the new site it takes more time to get topic author reply in reaction to your answer. It's due to missing email notifications and the notification in the top right part of the screen require refresh.

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I wish that the drop of activity is linked to the fact that people are reading help.sap.com :)

But, let's not delude ourselves: this is not the reason. Additionally, users were even deprived from efficient usage of their old posts and comments. Current access to archived threads would stop anyone to search for the answer before posting. Unfortunately, lack of activity is explained just by frustration and disappointment.

Yet, keeping fingers crossed, because everything still can be corrected. But, only under condition that the facts are acknowledged and some bold decisions would be taken.

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HI Joern,

i was trying to post a 'coffee' question, but i'm not sure if i just couldn't find the right tag or something else, so let me keep adding to your thread and hope that you don't consider it a 'hijack' or 'troll'.

i don't think your suggested URL can get as much attention as this corporate-sponsored platform, but we should keep trying.

it has become really hard not only to post but also to find your own content here. i'm not sure if it's because there's no real difference between comments and answers to questions or if the moderators' queues get filled up depending on the tag selected for your question. wiki remains an option but i'm not sure for how long.

in any event, how can we find you on diaspora?

rgds, greg

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from the menu Community > Coffee Corner

being there, just click the + Actions and select "start a discussion" - no tag needed

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Unfortunately we can no longer see comments in the profile. I believe CC posts, which are discussions, are invisible too. I found a link where we can see blogs and comments on the blogs, but comments made on the questions or discussions cannot be found in the profile, as we used to on SCN. I've already entered an Idea for it but I don't think any of the ideas will become reality any time soon.

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Hi, everyone:

I've been reading this discussion for weeks and asking myself, "Should I chime in?"

I think it's healthy for community members to commiserate (without a pesky SAP employee poking his nose in), but I've also wanted everyone to know that the SAP Community team is paying close attention to these conversations.

And if I did poke my nose in…what could I say? "Hey, stick around, it's gonna get better"? People would just roll their eyes and respond, "Yeah, heard that before."

Now, however, feels like the right time to say something…because I think I have plenty to say about the concerns/complaints raised here and elsewhere, the common ones being...

  • No one comes to the community now: Yes, traffic is down -- but the numbers aren't as bad as most people think. I'm gathering stats to share in a blog post (taking a little longer than I had thought as I dig for more data to address more and more comments), and, honestly, overall site visits are (on average) comparable to SCN. The number of new blogs and (believe it or not) questions is also comparable. (A pre-moderation snafu hurt questions at launch, but we've moved past that.) Where we see the biggest hit is in the number of responses (e.g., comments and answers). Why is that? Maybe it's a confusing Q&A interface or a baffling tagging experience. But that's why improving those two things are among the highest priorities for feature development. Which brings me to…
  • Nobody is listening to our feedback: I realize it seemed that way, and that's because of a lack of communications on our part. We took steps to fix that with new posts (shameless plug!) spelling out our priorities and highlighting the key deliverables from our release notes. That's just the start. A more detailed road map is coming, and will be updated regularly. New release notes will come every two weeks -- as our development cycle is biweekly. We'll post complementary blogs summarizing key features and bug fixes. I only ask that you keep in mind that the community is evolving…and evolution isn't an overnight process. As of this posting, there are 500 questions tagged Using SAP.com and more than 100 submissions in Idea Place. We read all of them (we are listening!), but we have to prioritize. So just because we haven't delivered something yet doesn't mean we won't deliver it at all. (Although, in all fairness, there are some things that we won't deliver, but we don't avoid delivering that bad news.)
  • We aren't wanted: Nothing could be further from the truth. When I start my day, I open Coffee Corner, Idea Place, and the activities associated with the Using SAP.com tag. I see what's new. I peek in periodically throughout the day. I do my best to respond. If I don't know an answer, I at least acknowledge the post and try to loop in the right experts. And it's not like I'm the only SAP Community employee doing this. If you look at all of the places I mentioned above, you'll see my colleagues doing their best to stay on top of the steady stream of questions, comments, and complaints. We've opened other channels of communications too -- from calls to in-person meetings at recent SAP TechEd events. That's because we want to know what you think and work with you to refine and enhance the experience. On a personal level…I'd hate to see the community wither as its best and brightest seek greener pastures. Now you might say, "Of course you feel that way. It's your job." And you'd be right. It is my job. But it's a job I really, really like. I've been with SAP for nearly 15 years. I've held many different positions with many different teams, and I gotta tell you -- SAP Community feels like home. That's not pandering. I like chatting with members, learning from their insights, getting feedback about better ways to do things, and…oh, yeah…writing. But even if you wanna take me out of the equation, know that SAP values the knowledge and dedication of committed community members. The company gains nothing from losing the community.

So where does that leave us?

How about with the name of this discussion:

"Where will the new SCN be?"

I hope right here.

The SAP Community.

Please continue to work with us.

It's gonna get better.

Now please don't roll your eyes.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

i voice some doubts, without being diplomatic at all: i'm not able to be it! :)

First of all, thanks for your answer but i hope you understand why many here around are really reallt skeptical about many actions in place (or that will be took): we expressed our concerns many times even during the BETA phase and here we are, with the same complains and issues.

Moving to your points: numbers! Numbers mean nothing if not clearly analyzed (i'm not saying you are not doing it!!) and as you also notice, the numbers say that visitors are almost the same, but the activity dropped, and dramatically.

The causes are well explained in the bunch of threads here in CC and Using SAP.com and even in the old BETA forum : interface sucks, search is useless, missing features, activity stream too confusing with tons of unwanted "rumor" in it.

And, again, we (i take the freedom to speak for many users) pointed out from the start (1 month and half ago) all of these issue without a feedback on them, because we do not know, for example, what's high on your (SAP) list and what's deleted from it and why.

Your link on Release Notes is a bit... poor. Even more, I susbscribed it and in 1 hour, yesterday, i got the update for new features and then the update for the deletion of the same.
The result? I'll delete them directly next time, without bothering to read them.

How can a memeber feel to be part of a community when the house we share reminds a blinky theater's scenery, without much behind it?

I know I'm one of the most complaining guys here around, but believe me, despite my negative voice, I did my best to try adapting the new place and I feel like I'm fighting Mike Tyson with both my arms bounded behind my back!

Last note: bugs.

We keep pointing out bugs: one day are resolved, two days later they appears again.

And I can find you (with AN HUGE EFFORT) at least 3 cases within the circle of people I follow.

Why should I keep repeating myself? Why should I bring out the same old issues? It's not my job! I did it, once, twice, even three times because I care but then, sorry, I feel someone is having fun about my effort.

So, sorry Jerry, I know you are putting your face in this and I cannot really blame you, but we are reaching a breaking point and, for me, it's no more time of speaking and trying to explain: how many times did you do it already?

It's time to choose and act (again, I'm not saying the teams are not working at all, but the results are.. meh!).
What is saving this place is the fact we do not have alternatives and i'm sure SAP is aware of this and "plays" a bit on this issue.

BR

Simone

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Hi, Simone:

I realize one single comment alone won't persuade anyone or erase skepticism. But I felt continued silence on our side would be even worse.

My intent primarily was to offer some reassurances, knowing full well that only ongoing results and communications can regain trust. So let me do my best to address your response (thank you for it, BTW) as best I can:

  • No need to be diplomatic. You were polite and to the point. I could ask for nothing more.
  • You're quite correct about numbers, which is why it's taking me longer to prepare the post. I don't want to drop a bunch of raw data without explanation and context. I also want to make sure that any information ties directly to any and all concerns raised (such as a drop in activity).
  • We did track and continue to share the feedback gathered during open beta, and it influences activities. But I believe your chief concern is that issues and bugs raised during open beta should have been addressed before launch. I can't change what should have been done (and I'm not going to revisit the topic of the satisfaction survey), and I can't expect you to believe that we've moved past status quo. I can only say that the same complaints and issues are being prioritized. Which brings me to…
  • You listed common complaints (interface, search, missing features, activity stream) and the lack of information about all of them. We're moving to remedy that. All of the complaints above appear on our list of priority features: https://blogs.sap.com/2016/11/16/update-about-the-development-of-priority-features/. Road map updates will provide more specifics, and we'll also publish dedicated posts about major milestones (such as work on notifications, for example). That covers what we'll definitely do. But what about the stuff we might do or absolutely won't do? We are responding to items as they come up -- such as when people ask for something in Using SAP.com or post a suggestion in Idea Place. We are also trying to tie all of that together, because the same feedback may come up multiple times. We share this type of progress on our "known issues" page as well: http://go.sap.com/community/about/support/known-issues.html
  • I also received the notifications about changes (and more changes) to the release notes yesterday. I'm not sure why that happened, but I wouldn't let that dissuade you from tracking updates. New features and bug fixes will come on a biweekly basis, so the updates published every two weeks should remain stable. If you still have doubts, then please keep an eye out for the highlights I'll be publishing (such as this one: https://blogs.sap.com/2016/11/17/release-highlights/). I won't publish those unless I'm absolutely certain of an update's accuracy.
  • I can assure you that no one is "having fun about your effort." Nobody behind the scenes is happy with bugs. Nobody is happy when a fix requires more work. I can't even begin to express the stress, frustration, and effort that goes into each and every sprint. I understand and respect the community's stance, and even if you see the output as "meh," nobody involved with the project is "meh" about the work.
  • If SAP were playing on the issue of "lack of alternatives," I wouldn't have posted here. The community is filled with smart people, and smart people can always find alternatives (and create them). You can criticize the team for any number of reasons. Hubris shouldn't be one of them. There is nothing cavalier about our attitude. That's why I asked community members to stay and work with us.

I could continue to post variations of all the above. But promises don't matter at this point. The community wants reports about progress. That's what I'm pledging to provide.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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. But promises don't matter at this point. The community wants reports about progress. That's what I'm pledging to provide.

No, we do not want reports, we want things to work ;)

And, again, sorry if i sound too rude, but, it's really frustrating trying to help someone without a feedback or anything else (i do not want to be paid, but i'd like i could contribute back as on SCN, not like now).

About your links, the Known Issues are incomplete. For example both me and Jurgen raised the issue about "alert moderator" button. It has been solved, 3 days later Jurgen found out has back.

Can you see how this hurts the trust?

It's a silly thing, marginal at all, but, in the eyes of a developer like me (remember i work with 0 and 1, one or the other :) ) this show something worring. From here and many little things like this came out the unhappy "having fun about my effort" (shame on me! i recognize i used a strong expression, not very respectful of your and your teams' work).

Again, it's my own feeling and it's possible it's me wrong while the rest of the world is happy.

Your annoucementes/blogs/posts are interesting, but I challenge you to find them if you log just 20 mins after they are published: you have to know what and where to search.

Now, i stop it, since it seems to me that i'm trying to beat you dead.

Sorry for the long posts and replies.

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Hi Jerry,

Thanks for chiming in.

Can you tell us something about the timeframe, when are things tackled, changed and delivered.

Personally for me, the new SCN does:

a) not allow me to participate in the community at the rate I was used to, using what little valuable time I can spare. I have no overview, what I need is a large overview of all of my subscribed content where 1 line is the subject line and with filtering options. I don't need to see about 15 updates where every update takes a big portion of the screen. I have no idea why this was thought of as a useful feature.

b) bring tears to my eyes by using an atrocious colour scheme. I can't understand how this was approved, maybe it looks good on 1 specific type of mobile device, but on a laptop screen it is a strain.

Kind regards, Rob Dielemans

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Hi, Rob:

Thanks for the response.

Your points concern notifications/activities and UX/UI, respectively. Please know that these things are indeed priority issues: https://blogs.sap.com/2016/11/16/update-about-the-development-of-priority-features/.

You're also looking at timeframes, etc., and I'm afraid you won't find all of those details in the post above. They will, however, be included in updates to the road map. More on that soon...

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

The credibility of your team is very low at this moment, virtually non-existent. What can fix that? Execution committed to and performed. You have set some reasonable expectations in your Overview page blog. As I said, in a much more long-winded comment, there is a little hope now. Now let's see those expectations met.

But for right now, don't bother with more explanations. No one wants to hear more promises. Just fix some things that have been broken. Then come back and we'll talk.

Regards, Mike (Moderator)

SAP Technology RIG

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Fair points, Mike. As I noted in my long-winded response to Simone (and equally long-winded first comment), I wanted people to know that we are listening. But I agree that saying we're listening is not the same as showing that we're listening. So I'll pull way back on the long "promise" posts and stick to the updates.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Did you see SAPiens Community?

https://www.sapiens.community/

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Huseyin, I would recommend you to get the Privacy for your domain.

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Looks good. Hopefully, it will attract the right mix of people to start a new community.

Bookmarked.

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VBulletin, why? It's slow, and from the "old school" ;-)

My advice, hide all empty categories and forums for public.

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Funny enough - these are pretty much all the categories that are really needed. Just add Cloud, mobility and Coffee Corner and you're in business. No one needs thousands of tags.

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Unless you have some metrics attached. "I want to see 60% growth in our tag numbers next month, people! This is doable! Get on it!".......keynote 6 months later "Today, I am proud to announce we offer over 1500 tags with even more planned in the coming quarters.....that's 1450 more than Oracle offers their community members and Oracle has up to now never publicly laid out a cohesive tag strategy as we have time and again openly communicated to our customers."

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Spot on, Chris! Dr. KPI should be a new villain.

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