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Coffee Karma - Update

As you may have already seen via an email from my colleague Sajid Amir, we have an upcoming change to the SAP Questions and Answers platform that may affect your karma credit total on the SAP Community.

As a reminder, your karma credit total is only displayed to you when you are logged in on the main SAP Questions and Answers screen: https://answers.sap.com/index.html.

As Audrey Stevenson has already confirmed, karma credits are presently being awarded for Coffee Corner participation in error. This has going on since the platform switch.

The issue is not only that the karma credits are awarded for participation in Coffee Corner, it’s also that they are being awarded unfairly. Unfairly because karma is awarded for likes on comments, but not for likes on discussions. Coffee Corner is intended to be a place for mingling, not for earning reputation, so we have been working with a vendor to fix this.

The work is now complete, and we plan to roll out this fix next week, in the upcoming sprint release, on our around January 31, 2018. At that time, any karma credits you have earned in coffee corner will be removed from your total. Going forward, Coffee Corner will be a karma-free area, with no karma credit awards. Karma will continue to be awarded for Q&A participation.

We have sent an email to members we know will be affected by the change today.

I fully acknowledge that this fix has been a long time coming, and the karma irony is not lost on me. I apologize for the inconvenience. Jerry Janda may be willing to host a support group this weekend for anyone who needs it:)

This fix will get us a step closer to better leveraging the embedded karma-related features of the AnswerHub platform. So I am happy about that part.

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter.

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78 Comments

  • Jan 25 at 05:13 PM

    I've had my email. Looking forward to seeing my much reduced karma level. I may need that support group, Jerry Janda. Karma Losers Anonymous?

    • Jan 25 at 05:15 PM

      There, Steve, I just gave you another karma point to lose! ;)

      I may need the support group as well.

    • Jan 25 at 06:28 PM

      Once I complete crying over the collapse of my Coffee Corner karma credits (say 5 times fast), I'm definitely putting together a support group.

      • Jan 25 at 07:26 PM

        I'm in! But Jerry, you are so well-liked in Coffee Corner that I suspect you may have the most to lose. ;)

        • Jan 25 at 07:57 PM

          You ain't kidding. That's why I'm crying...and why I'll never speak to Caroleigh again. ;-)

    • Jan 25 at 07:14 PM

      At least not a cryptocoin fall

      Be cool if we could get top 5 losers listed. If each person approved such a post then they could be the founding members of the support group. Every so often we can talk about the great karma fall of 2018.

      later on future pinot chasers can join and talk about their karma loss

      • Jan 25 at 07:26 PM

        I like it! Just for fun, of course.

      • Jan 25 at 07:47 PM

        We can have monthly calls hosted by the founding members, where the point chasers are sent to have a good talking to. They'll have to listen to the musings about the good old days...

        In my day, you didn't have to game... you could get all the karma credits you could ever want just by being yourself and having a good time in Coffee Corner... That Caroleigh, she sure is a meanie.

      • Jan 25 at 07:59 PM

        I don't want my legacy to be one of the "top 5 losers." Although if I am a founding member, Caroleigh already wrote my first speech... :)

        In my day, you didn't have to game... you could get all the karma credits you could ever want just by being yourself and having a good time in Coffee Corner... That Caroleigh, she sure is a meanie.

      • Jan 25 at 08:24 PM

        " 'member Karma in Coffee Corner? Oh, I 'member..." :) Jerry can be The Master Memberer.

  • Jan 25 at 07:45 PM

    In Jive points come from:

    1. Correct answer by question author. 10

    2. Helpful answer by question author. 5

    3. Blog posted. 10

    4. Missions. Various

    No points from likes at all - to prevent point cheating.

    Today we don't have "helpful answer by question author", then only accepted answers have to be counted in karma.

    • Jan 25 at 07:47 PM

      And instead of karma we can use Accepted answer count - visible to everybody :)

      • Jan 26 at 09:18 AM

        That would be a fine metric - if answers were actually being accepted :-D It might vary by tag, but the ones I frequent are pretty bad in that regard.

        • Jan 26 at 09:25 AM

          Easy - next time the same person asks a new question - remind him about not accepted answer :)

          • Jan 27 at 01:13 PM

            True. But I have a limited amount of time to spend in the forums (sorry, Q&A section ;-), and I don't feel that comfortable poking people to accept answers either.

            There is a problem, though. I (obviously :-) feel that my answers are fairly high quality. I spend time researching interesting questions, if I don't immediately know the answer. From time to time I've even blogged more complete answers to questions that interest me. However, looking over my answers, you would be forgiven for assuming they're pretty s**t, since very few (about one in four) are accepted. Upvotes are quite rare as well.

            It's the current state of affairs, I guess. Let's see how the community UX refresh affects things.

            • Jan 27 at 09:06 PM

              Since new Community you have 76 answers with 17 accepted - 22%

              I have 2033 answers with 469 accepted - 23%

              Nothing wrong!

    • Jan 25 at 08:22 PM

      I believe there was 1 point for Like in some cases, e.g. for a blog. That's how Steve Rumsby (I think) and myself were able to achieve Diamond level in the last moments before The Big Pinot Collapse of 2016.

    • Jan 29 at 09:32 AM

      The equivalent to "Helpful answer by question author" is the upvoting of answers by the community. So this is not really lost, more like enhanced. ^^

      • Jan 29 at 04:52 PM

        It's not an enhancement, it's a way for point cheating! For this reason in SDN on Jive "likes" in Q&A generated NO points. It was a special decision on this subject (I can even find the link to announcement).

  • Jan 31 at 08:32 AM

    Just as a late reply:

    Coffee Corner is intended to be a place for mingling, not for earning reputation, so we have been working with a vendor to fix this.

    Personally, I don't mind whether points are awarded here or not – particularly as they don't allow me to do tasks I would not be able to do otherwise.

    Nevertheless, during the initial phase and still today (see the current discussion), CC has also been a very important place to discuss – and rant about – the current platform and its features and bugs, so basically a meta Q&A. That may or may not have been fun Jerry Janda – but it apparently has meant much more than "hanging around and mingling" (which of course has its own value), and I would consider much of the participation in those discussions serious work, too.

    Just saying:)

    • Jan 31 at 02:16 PM

      Fixed :)

      Coffee Corner is intended to be a place for mingling and testing Jerry Janda's pain threshold, not for earning reputation, so we have been working with a vendor to fix this.

      Joking aside, I really do enjoy participating in Coffee Corner. I wouldn't want my reputation here to be based on points anyway. Coffee Corner has allowed me to get to know some of our most prominent members better and, as you noted, it's an important place for discussing the pros and cons (more latter than former) of the platform.

    • Jan 31 at 02:24 PM

      I agree that coffee corner has taken on its own life in the context of the platform switch. Important conversations certainly do happen here.

  • Jan 31 at 10:26 PM

    This morning, the fix to prevent karma credits from being awarded for Coffee Corner contributions was released.

    The process to reverse those awarded to-date has not yet finished. I will update here when I know more.

    • Feb 01 at 03:39 PM

      No rush. ;-)

    • Feb 01 at 05:12 PM

      in case you fear that the system crashes when one reaches the 5 digits numbers then hurry up

      • Feb 01 at 10:48 PM

        Only 300 to go since I just liked this post :)

        • Feb 02 at 08:51 AM

          Should not matter as no more pinots are awarded here:)

          • Feb 02 at 03:46 PM

            You make a good point, or in this case lack of points being awarded ;) The irony was in the number from Jürgen reaching a 5 digit number, and it just happens to be one of my favorite movies '300'

  • Feb 02 at 02:11 PM

    Still working on the retroactive change... Good thing I wrote on or around.

    • Feb 02 at 03:34 PM

      Furthermore there's the smart usage of "may" here:

      an upcoming change [...] that may affect your karma credit total on the SAP Community

      Whatever the change will be, it simply cannot fail..:)

    • Feb 02 at 04:09 PM

      You'll have to leave something for a future update ;) Especially after the mic drop and lone soldier that just appeared in the release notes: https://wiki.scn.sap.com/wiki/x/IpvHGg

  • Feb 06 at 07:53 PM

    Just a quick note to let your know our vendor is testing an optimized approach, and I hope to have more details soon.

  • Feb 12 at 06:32 PM

    The optimized process to reverse coffee corner karma has finished running and those affected should see that reflected in their total. While I continue to spot-check, please let me know if anything seems off. Jerry Janda let me know if you need me to stop by with a box of tissues.

    • Feb 12 at 06:42 PM

      "please let me know if anything seems off."

      How would a non-moderator figure this out without access to Karma credit logs?

      I doubt that many will be willing to spend time going through all CC discussions to count likes. :)

      • Feb 12 at 07:36 PM

        You're right. I only meant if the magnitude of the change was different than expected, to let let know so I can investigate. We're also checking the new totals based on a report we pulled prior to making the change.

    • Feb 12 at 07:57 PM

      Luckily I had already taken a screenshot for my resume and LinkedIn profile ;-P

    • Feb 13 at 02:26 PM

      No need. I'm just going to wipe away my tears with my brand-new "I Lost Half of My Karma Credits and All I Got Was This Lousy T-shirt" shirt.

    • Feb 14 at 01:59 PM

      I went from 3something down to 2something, seems fine!

  • Feb 12 at 09:18 PM

    OMG, I lost like half of Karma, aaaaaahh!

    The only reason I know this though because I looked at it earlier when hiding the obtuse Find Discussions box per this discussion. Otherwise I wouldn't even know probably. "With much wisdom comes much sorrow", I guess. :)

    • Feb 13 at 10:31 AM

      I'm suprised at what I have left

      • Feb 13 at 11:14 AM

        Me, too, because it's still > 0. Wasn't aware that I had done any real work here.

        But now I wonder "Where has all the karma gone?" - In case you asked for an earworm...


      • Feb 13 at 11:32 AM

        Me too. I lost a lot less that I expected. Just about a third of my karma was here, it seems. I'm doing more elsewhere than I realised!

    • Feb 13 at 02:22 PM

      I lost half too. And it's not like I'm smart enough to answer actual questions. I'm never gonna recover from this...

      • Feb 13 at 03:19 PM

        Lucky for you there is still "Using SAP.com". ;)

        • Feb 13 at 03:25 PM

          True, but I'm only active there when people have bugs to report or they want to voice dissatisfaction, and...

          Oh, wait.

          That tag should keep me busy for a long time. :)

    • Feb 13 at 04:21 PM

      Me too! The number went down to just slightly more than half my previous total. Oh well........... ;)

  • Feb 12 at 11:05 PM

    Oh boy. Now I have to start all over again. Kind of...

    I'm just sad that I can't see who liked my stuff anymore now. :(

    • Feb 12 at 11:21 PM

      wow, content of 5 months on just one page, who had expected to get such a condensed view. ;-)

      • Feb 13 at 09:26 AM

        At least it shows that I am active outside of CC, too. ^^

        And I'd never compare myself to you and your first page going back just 5 days or I might doubt myself. :D

      • Feb 15 at 04:29 PM

        2 accepted answers today, Jürgen! I'll catch up with you yet! :D

    • Feb 13 at 02:09 PM

      You'll just have to use deductive reasoning and channel your innermost Sherlock Holmes and paginate through your Activity Feed. The likes are very prominent, so if you really want to know who liked your stuff, you can at least make educated guesses...

    • Feb 13 at 02:25 PM

      If it's any consolation: Being able to see who liked your content was a feature requested in Idea Place (now Customer Influence), and it's still under consideration: https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/141758/?section=sectionComments

      --Jerry

      • Feb 13 at 03:18 PM

        I don't know if I should see it that way, since this idea is in limbo for two years now. ^^ As far as I know it's not really a technical issue, more like a "we don't want to show it for reasons" one. I've brought it up in the Reputation Advisory Group meetings, so the team knows where I stand with this. :)

        • Feb 13 at 03:24 PM

          That's a fair point, and I wish I could say more...but, yeah, a lot of the ideas have been in limbo awhile, but there's a new sheriff in town, so...we'll see.

          --Jerry

  • Feb 13 at 04:41 PM

    FYI, we are looking into an issue with the karma credit total. The total displayed to users in their answers.sap.com header and in the log available to moderators, is not being updated for some karma-earning activities we see logged in the backend. We are looking into it.

  • Feb 21 at 06:40 AM

    I am gutted I hardly lost any. I obviously have my priorities wrong and am not spending enough time here. Must work on that!

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