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[Status Update] Idea Place, features, and fixes

Last week, Kuhan Milroy (the head of Idea Place) published a blog post about the migration of Idea Place to a new site named Customer Influence. This post covered the overall migration.

Today, I published a blog post about what this migration means for SAP Community specifically. This blog post also tackles the general topic of feature requests and issues reported.

The migration is scheduled for September 18, with a site freeze occurring on September 15 (with the migrating starting the same day). Therefore, I'll publish a reminder a few weeks before.

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Aug 28, 2017 at 03:55 PM
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I really, really want to know who choses those "hero images" at SAP. What is their thought process? Is it something like that?

- Folks, today we need to pick a stock photo for "influence and adoption" web site.
- What is "influence"?
- Yeah, who's influencing and adopting what?
- Well, this is a website where the SAP customers will enter their ideas for improvements.
- Will we implement the ideas?
[ hysterical laughter in the room ]
- [wiping the tears] Ah, hehe, good one... OK, maybe a hiker at the top of the mountain?
- "Take a hike"? Hmm, no, too obvious.
- How about the boats?
- Hasso likes boats!
- Need something cheaper, more relatable. And slow.
- A raft?
- Oh, I know! A canoe! Customers are merrily rowing down the stream together with their ideas.
- Great idea! And let's add the sunset! Everyone loves sunsets.
- Customers floating away into the sunset. Love it! Oh, and make sure to add some ladies there, we always catch a flack for white males in the pics.
- Say no more, boss, got a perfect picture right here!

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LOL ... Ok.. that was mean!

ROTFLMAO

Now to be honest... those are not canoes. That's sculling and those are shells or sculls.

And as you can see, it's quite appropriate. Each user in the photo is only allowed one oar and you must have at least 5 people to a scull.. 4 rowers and the coxswain to get the minimum of 5 votes to be considered.

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Craig - thank you! I knew I could rely on you to supplement my poor boat knowledge. :) And it all makes total sense now.

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this made me laugh so hard, but then I started to cry.... it hit too close...

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I think you missed pointing out the excessively large white background text blob covering a large percentage of the image.

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I bet the team that put effort in selecting this glorious stock photo must be majorly disappointed by that fact. But probably not as much as the site users who have to scroll down immediately to do anything productive.

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That's 1DX for you... you have to scroll... everywhere SAP!

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I don't know the reaction of other people when they see this, but these tiles are nightmarish to me.

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There is an option to switch to some kind of list layout, but it does not improve significantly the situation:

Sigh... there are cases, where FIORI tiles make sense and cases, where they do not.

By the way, I tried to look at the improvement details via responsive design mode on 360x640 and I ended up with a horizontal scroll, which somehow defeats the point of FIORI.

Maybe the designers and developers need to work with devices like the ones of the intended user base.

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where did you find such future-oriented post? posted on Dec. 7, 2017, impressive as we have only end of August 2017

I tried my best with my Blackberry to find this post, but after I touched the tile with that content I only got to the aquarium without fishes.

I anyway got a certificate error for this site

this exercise alone took me more than 10 minutes - is this waiting time what the youngsters enjoy when using the mobile phone to connect with SAP?

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The direct link is https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/49976. All improvement requests for SD Sales and Billing 2018 are with the same date, for other opportunities like SAP Advanced Track and Trace for Pharmaceuticals the dates are also in the future. This probably means that the migration tests are in an early phase...

I did not get certificate errors on my laptop in Firefox, but there is a popup blocked by default, after which I need to access another link, so that I can log in.

On a good laptop with fast internet connection the experience is still poor due to application slowness and not really great design. I cannot imagine that I will have the patience to use it on a low-end smartphone.

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Hi Jurgen,

Can you provide more details on device, OS and steps you took. Have you tried accepting the certificate? If there are error messages, can you share them?

Thanks

Kuhan

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Blackberry Leap Softwareversion 10.3.3.1435 Browserversion 10.3.3.16

I entered the URL influence.sap.com and I get this screen telling me that the identity of the web page can't be checked.

Of course I had to accept that I trust this site to get further.

After 60 seconds I had finally your completely loaded boat site.

From here I scroll down and select the tile for Sales, this can be seen in this 58 second video (unfortunately You have to keep your head at an angle) which ends when the new site has completely loaded

https://youtu.be/cu29cZlWiyQ

the next video starts after I have entered the search term (Allow transmission.), with pressing the start search icon. It runs 47 seconds. No hint whether it is still doing something or it just stopped. I actually waited some minutes more but no change:

https://youtu.be/KH7TRbV-hyk

In the 3rd video I press again the search button, but as there no real action I switch over to scroll down and show the load performance and the freezing. This video is 6:18 minutes long. But finally I have just made experience and not found what I was looking for (the screenshot from Veselina's post)

https://youtu.be/qRu7n8m9zos

Finally I opened this discussion in my browser and clicked the link to the idea https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/49976 which was posted above by Veselina.

And this time I get a baby blue screen - again nothing on it, not even after 5 minutes, it is just doing nothing

Just to mention it: my download speed is 125 Mbps

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Hi Donnie, Veselina,

I do believe the list view is the more intuitive interface for the improvement requests use-case. We had it added to the product for Customer Influence and have been doing a few round of enhancements on it. Expect the list view to improve over time. We already have a bunch of improvement requests in discussion like moving the current votes to the left, making the voting buttons more prominent. The big letter text box is suppose to be removed already, so perhaps we've missed this for certain displays sizes. Feedback, definitely welcome on it.

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360x640 seems a little small, what device/view is that? Most visitors, use desktops for browsing Idea Place today but we do want to support mobile.

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360x640 is the most common resolution for browsers according to Netmarketshare , which is why I tried it :) The actual resolution of my phone is 480x800, but it is rather exotic...

I did not dare trying out the site on my phone, because even on a laptop the browser freezes at times during scrolling/filtering. On my not really powerful phone this would be much worse...

If the site is supposed to be used primarily on desktop, then I am surprised that it defaults to huge tiles instead of lists and even the list view does not look good on a 1920x1080 display.

I do not mind much the display problems, really. I can handle most of these on my end. My biggest concern is the slowness of the application, which I cannot influence by tweaking.

I understand that the implementation team put a lot of effort to develop the new features, but from an end-user perspective (like me) this is a huge over-complication with very little benefit. A much better list view with filtering example is the lists in expert notes search. Items usually load fast (when the site is working), good utilization of the screen estate, one can read the whole description even on low resolution displays in the list view without clicking on details etc.

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On Idea Place, in the last month for Screen Resolution, about 80% were 2000px wide and up and there was 9% in the 300ish range. But sounds like mobile needs some more work.

We have done 2 round of caching improvements with Akamai but are still finding things to tweak. Once the pages load and your browser is caching, try navigating around again. It should be much faster. If you have specific pages, actions and a delay after that, that would be helpful to know.

As for tiles vs list. I believe the sessions where changed to default to lists, so I will look into.

We will be adding the description (available in mouse over currently) to the list view and a few other fields. More to come.

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There is sufficient space for the full title on desktop resolutions if you make some columns narrower, place descriptions like votes/comments in the header as titles, use just an icon for follow instead of the huge tile-like ones, default to full screen, where it is possible. The description (improvement request details) is nice to have, but I would like to see the complete title of the initiative and the one of the request in the list instead of dots indicating that I need to navigate to detailed display to read the titles.

I am aware that after caching I would be able to scroll up faster, but this is usually not how most people use such pages: I scroll down until I see something interesting, I open the link in a new tab and continue scrolling until I find something else... I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

There is another usability problem with infinite scrolling, which I would appreciate if it is taken care of: in most FIORI apps, where you have long lists, one could see how many items are in total in the list and how many you have already loaded. This is currently not available in the new site, but it is an useful feature - it tells you whether it makes sense to adjust your filters and search criteria.

Right now the filters do not hold very useful information (probably there are some problems with the test data uploads - I see only Human Resources Service in lines of business); there is no way to use multiple entry for more than one opportunity; when you select filter by opportunity, some filter is applied, but the text from the filter disappears; I see duplicated statuses for submitted, accepted etc.

The user tags will become tedious to use as a filter in the future, because the list will become much bigger and there is no way to search tags as filters by typing like in Manjaro Forum:

Maybe it is worth to explore a similar functionality in the future if the idea is that users will make use of additional tags for filtering.

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Wait! Are you allowed to say that!

I thought mobile access and interaction was the number one thing!

I mean... that was the theory on the community here right? And aren't we trying to have the same user experience everywhere???

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You're right, Craig. Kuhan is not allowed to speak out against mobile design. You'll never see him again.

I'm kidding.

Maybe.

OK, let's be serious: 1DX (One Digital Experience) wasn't just about mobile-first. It is (and was) a way to bring together all of the SAP online properties into a unified experience (so you wouldn't have to go to SAP.com and SCN as two separate sites, to be specific in this case). Clearly, it's a work still in progress. (Wiki, anybody?)

I think we can all agree that selling the new community experience as "mobile first" was a mistake. Nobody is using a mobile device to write a blog or long technical answer. This isn't to suggest, however, that people don't use their phones to consume information (om nom nom). So it's not an either/or situation. It's really about walking the line between mobile and desktop.

We're not there yet with the community, and that's why all recent communications from our team have emphasized that improving the user experience is the top priority. Redesigns have happened. More are coming. Usability testing will follow.

I don't want to speak for Kuhan, but from what I read here, he and his team are being judicious -- trying to decide when it's best to lean toward mobile instead of desktop (and vice versa). Also, much of SAP Community is based upon the same structure as SAP.com overall, so it's only natural that there are similarities between the two. Customer Influence is using a completely different UI, so the look and feel will be different as well compared to us.

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Thanks Jerry. You know I was being a tad sarcastic.. :-)

I actually think mobile is great. But as you said, there needs to be consideration for both platforms and when and where they are used.

I'm still hopeful we'll find nirvana. :-)

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I think we can all agree that selling the new community experience as "mobile first" was a mistake. Nobody is using a mobile device to write a blog or long technical answer. This isn't to suggest, however, that people don't use their phones to consume information (om nom nom). So it's not an either/or situation. 

Finally someone talking sense! Thank you.

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I also cannot speak for others, but I believe that the underlying problem is not mobile vs desktop.

It is understandable that the world is moving on and eventually we will need both, but that the application design is far from optimal on any device, that the announced go-live date is coming near and there won't be sufficient time to fix the problems.

In this aspect, it is a reminiscent of SAP Community go-live - not very well thought out design, plenty of bugs and a rushed go-live, which drove many people away. I really hope that history won't repeat itself.

If the team needs a bit of help with testing before the go-live date (I am not sure what one is allowed to do with the data, that is currently uploaded), I am willing to help and provide more detailed feedback.

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Oh yes, please. Optimize it for desktop! Good, good, good.

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I'm with you.

SCN shows as little as possible and it feels for the Consumer Influence page they went the extreme opposite way: texts, texts everywhere! Even as "icons". My brains was almost fried, when I had a look at the site some days ago.

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Hi, everyone:

Thanks for feedback. I'm going to pass along to Kuhan Milroy, who is the head of this project. Kuhan is the guy who wrote this https://blogs.sap.com/2017/08/24/idea-place-product-idea-sessions-are-migrating-to-customer-influence/ , and it might also help to post these comments to that blog post -- to centralize the conversation a bit (and to speak more directly to someone who is in a better position to address the concerns raised here).

Best regards,

--Jerry

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On 4k desktop screen (3840x2160) with global 200% windows magnification the page looks incorrect (screenshot was resized to 50%):

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P.S. And yes, the page is terribly slow, I am constantly receiving errors that the script on this page is not responding.

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We're likely going to remove that text/image in an upcoming release.

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What about general site performance? My browser hangs on this site...

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Hi Vadim, is still happening regularly for you?

Can you describe when you get the hangs like loading site, switching to ideas, scrolling?

Specific sessions, pages?

Browser?, OS?

Also, where are you physically browsing from (or VPN'd to)?

Also, to clarify, is it a page load problem or has the page loaded and you are waiting for data? (if you can tell the differences)

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When scrolling the list of improvement requests!

I am using FireFox ESR 52.3.0 on Windows 10 with fast Intel I7 processor.

I am on a direct internet connection with 100 Mb/sec tested speed.

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The text you are referring to (the project description) is actually an image, which means it won't scale well. I guess, it is possible to serve different images based on the detected screen size, but I wonder whether there is a need of maintaining this as image at all - why not have the project description as text and color the items based on a specific property? I am not a developer, but this should be easily achievable...

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Unbelievable but it's an image! I can't comment on the idea to use images with text... It makes me crazy :)

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P.S. Just tried to look on this side on iPad... not usable at all :(

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i checked the DOM of that part... Urgh!

Even more, UI5 uses fonts as Icon and here, for a text we have an image?

Why?!

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As pointed out by Vadim, the resolution is freaky and totally unusable: i've to zoom to 175% to see something and the choosen green is hurting my eyes.

Plus, when i'm logged here and click a link pointing to Influence space , i have this page sooo late 90s!

Apart the page style, really? i'm coming from answer.sap.com and you ask me to login again for influence.sap.com?

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No, really... talk with someone about your color pallette!

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I like purple actually. Bold, yet gentle :)

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But it's totally awkard in the light shades of blue of the site!

It's "bold and gross", a punch in the eyes (imho)!

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while I agree on general (trying to be polite here) awkwardness of the design of the site and its color choices - this particular color is nice and you can see the text clearly .
IMHO.

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or maybe i'm just tired of whashed out colors and light blue/grays...

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Why the need of talking to someone about color palettes? There are free online tools, which help selecting a good color scheme, then one starts playing with color variations...

Cough ... 'color wheel'... cough...

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There may simply be less color soon.

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I hope you did not mean adopting the 1DX color scheme :)

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:) We are looking at simply removing the color square on lists. We may reconsider the palette but perhaps it doesn't matter as much after a reduction.
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We're investigating getting rid of the SSO new page pop-up. It shouldn't be appearing.

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Simone Miles in regards to coming from answers.sap.com and being asked to logon again, are you receiving a user/pass page prompt? SSO should be working across the sites.

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Hello Kuhan,

it's a bit (long bit) that i do not try it.

The issue was random but now it seems working.

If i'll face it again, i'll poke your sides

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Thanks for the update.

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Thank you for all the feedback. I've been heads down on ensuring the migration and content goes smoothly so I will revisit the comments in more detail after Sept 18th.

Mean while, there are two session that I encourage you to use for further feedback and ideas:

Continuous Influencing Process https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/campaign/13
Customer Influence site https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/campaign/11

As well, I've given a webinar on the topic with some slides here: https://blogs.sap.com/2016/12/13/sap-community-calls-list-2017/

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Object does not exist or access is denied is received when following the link Continuous Influencing Process https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/campaign/13

And I recommend a plastic surgery for this poor girl from campaign 11

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Should work now.

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confirmed

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Seems like the migration took place...

I checked my current improvement request, and it does not look very promising:

Flat list only? and duplicate comment entries all over...

Any chance this will get better, Jerry Janda?

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But look what they have: a "toggle full screen" button! Why can't we have that here as well?

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Martin Hinderer,

I'm not the best qualified to answer that. Kuhan Milroy (head of the Idea Place project) has been very active in this thread, trying to address all the questions raised/comments made. I'm mentioning him here so that he's aware of your post.


Best regards,

--Jerry

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Thanks Jerry,

let's see if Kuhan Milroy brings some light on this issue.

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Well, it seems like he does not want to do that...no comments so far.

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Apologies on the delay responding, I stopped getting email notifications..

Yes the comments are flat list. Great feature request..

Martin Hinderer Are you still getting that error? The comments appear fine to me:

https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/137848/?section=sectionComments

If it's still an issue, can you share more details, like browser, OS, etc...

Thanks

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I see something different:

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Is there a particular reason that in the "Votes" tab the individual votes are not displayed by default, so I have to expand them every time?

(If there is already an idea, err "Improvement Request" for that, I have not found that.)

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I noticed that. And clicking on any name in the list (once displayed) just collapses it.

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I would assume that comes from the origin of this site (influencing SAP): votes that came from different users of one company are counted only once. Most likely these are then grouped by company here.

So the one you are seeing here would then be the "company not specified" group.

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Hm, that assumption sounds reasonable - nevertheless the UI behaviour is certainly not:)

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Please add feedback/Improvement Request on this one.

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Sorry, Kuhan, as stated, due to privacy concerns, I won't participate in the new site – and therefore the UI does not matter to me anymore...).

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The list of ideas is incomplete. Fortunately I made a list of the top 20 ideas right before the migration started.

Rank Idea Date Votes Status

1 Return classic SCN back to keep SAP professionals in the community 11/12/2016 89 Acknowledged

2 Q&A - Notifications of ALL activity in a question to everyone related to that question 10/10/2016 76 Accepted

3 Replace Activities and Notifications using a Fiori/SAPUI5 based Master - Detail structure 1/27/2017 70 Under Review

4 Email notifications 10/17/2016 65 Accepted

5 Overview of my followed tags 10/11/2016 56 Accepted

6 Bookmarks 10/10/2016 50 Under Review

7 Integrate SAP Community Topic Page directly with Product Page on sap.com 10/17/2016 45 Under Review

8 Provide enhanced SAP Community Account management possibilities 10/13/2016 44 Under Review

9 Make finding questions to answer easier 10/10/2016 42 Accepted

10 Morbus scrollus verticalus infected now also the (former) SCN :-( 10/19/2016 41 Accepted

11 Navigation between a thread and its primary tag queue 5/8/2017 39 Under Review

12 Paste pictures from Clipboard (STRG +V) into Blogs etc. 10/10/2016 37 Under Review

13 Export as PDF option 10/17/2016 34 Accepted

14 Adding filter to Q&A 10/10/2016 34 Accepted

15 Eliminate all Tags that have no content 1/11/2017 29 Accepted

16 Add tagging for users and other content 10/14/2016 28 Accepted

17 Make Primary tags that make sense to new users. 10/11/2016 28 Under Review

18 User-defined follow list that consolidates multiple tags 10/12/2016 26 For Future Consideration

19 Q&A: Different color for answers or comments 10/10/2016 26 Acknowledged

20 Need more FILTERS 11/1/2016 25 Accepted

Only one of mine seems to have migrated. And it was not in the top 20. Looking at vote counts, it looks like only 5 of the top 20 are now in the Influence.sap.com site.

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Hi, Mike:

I'm just getting back from a workshop in Boston (which came right after TechEd), so I'm a bit behind.

I'm not sure why those links aren't redirecting to the new site. I'm going to reach out to Kuhan Milroy.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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That's because the redirect url does not contain the actual Idea number. It contains NaN instead which makes it an invalid Idea reference. The Redirect script contains an error and needs to be fixed. Probably an easy thing to do. So put in the request and let's see how long it takes to percolate through. Clock is now started! :D

Another little tidbit, when I manually enter the Idea number from the url in the link above, it still shows the same screen. However, if I copy and paste the url directly, it opens the influence.sap.com window with the Idea number changed from "D40252" to "140252". At a guess, the NaN (Not a Number) error is coming from the redirect failing to do the correct Idea number substitution. In other words, D40252 is indeed not a number, but the redirect is not substituting 140252 during the process.

Perhaps there is a cross reference table not called or maybe it is a coded direct substitution which is not taking place in the redirect when invoked from a link and not copy pasted.

Okay, enough behavioral clues. It should be fairly easy to figure out from this information.

Jerry Janda

Kuhan Milroy

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One more interesting thing is that if I click on one of your links (in this example: my idea #8), it goes to the redirection page of ideas.sap.com. And from there it seems to link into nirvana:

I still can manually find my idea as migrated improvement request, though. And it still has the same errors in the comments section like mentioned aboved in this thread.

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BUG, BUG, BUG

A little more testing and found these items are still there, but there is apparently a limit on the number of items displayed. As much as I hate scrolling, there needs to be an automatic expansion mechanism as you reach the bottom of the page to show all the rest of the items. It looks like the auto-expansion only happens once and it should continue to happen until all the items are displayed.

Select All Improvements

Change the Sort By to Number of Votes, Descending.

At least this is what worked yesterday. For some reason, it does not execute automatically. I suspect there is a button which is now covered up by the Export All Footer, but can't see more than the top edge. I can click on it, but nothing happens except the button turns blue for a moment. The screen does not react, so it does not do a refresh nor does it do the sort I saw previously.

Does not work in either Chrome or IE.

Is there a Jam Group to report these defects? Posting in a response to a Coffee Corner discussion does not seem to be a good approach to collecting errors and broken functionality.

Kuhan Milroy

Please advise

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BUG, BUG, BUG

Kuhan Milroy

I think the previous bug has another consequence. When I open the Influence site it automatically presents the "My Improvement requests". But it only shows one improvement and that has a low vote count. Since the data set it returns is incomplete, it does not show all of my Improvement requests, expecially the same items I mentioned before at the top of the list of high voted items. So the incomplete listing and the incomplete My Improvement requests [please capitalize the r in requests to satisfy the English Grammarian in my soul] are probably drawn against the same result set.

Regards, Mike
Strategy & Product Management

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Remove everything from question mark and after in the url.

I'll get the code updated too.

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Redirects fixed to handle urls with extra chars after the D######

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Looks like the redirect is indeed fixed. Thanks Kuhan Milroy !

Also noticed that Item number 3 on the top 20 list I posted had 70 upvotes in IdeaPlace and now only has 54? I could see it moving around a little bit in the weeks since I logged the top 20, but would expect it to go up rather than down.

Bugs still open?

  1. Incomplete result set?
  2. What about the sorting functionality?
  3. Incorrect vote counts after migration?

Regards, Mike

Jerry Janda

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9 votes from SAP SE employees are counted just as 1 vote

4 votes from SAP Labs Newton square are as well just 1 vote now

could be even less if SAP had not in each country is own company

It looks like doing as much as possible to avoid that an idea has to be realized

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Law of Unintended Consequences is still in effect apparently. Sigh...

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Jerry Janda

I had a look at the new "Idea Place" yesterday and was surprised (and not in a good way) that the company names of the users are showing in the voting section and if you have a look at the profile of a person there.

It's strange to see that such an info is shared (and can't be hidden in the profile) while "Privacy concerns" are the main argument when it comes to why we can't see the names of the people who liked or voted content in SCN.

Is this a mistake or will the option to hide personal information in the new idea place come later on? The same happend here in the new Community (the option to decide myself what I like to share).

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Steffi, thanks for pointing out this leak, and frankly:

SAP, revealing private information is a total no-go in my book.<br>

That has already been a problem during the first days of the new site, see here.

I'm really shocked it does happen again, and no, there's no execuse to do so.

(I'm usually not that bold.)

@Steffi:

Is this a mistake or will the option to hide personal information in the new idea place come later on?

Even the plan to later add an option to hide (or reveal) information that was entered as private would be a mistake, for sure.

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This is new. It has not been there before. As I do not think that this is allowed from a data protection point of view.

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Hi, Steffi:

I'll bring this to the attention of Kuhan as well.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Hi Steffi, Volker, Martin, Jerry,

The company name is now displayed with an idea's votes as the vote counts are calculated per company. Per company voting reduces gaming from a single company and the SAP Product Managers can still get the total votes for consideration.

Company was always displayed on the previous influence.sap.com site and though it was available on Idea Place we discouraged displaying it. I say discouraged as it was visible for many years and we did hide it in some places but Google search was always able to capture it. Since Idea Place didn't use company name for votes there was never really a reason to display it and we took the approach to hide personal info when not needed.

Going forward, having the per company voting is a core part of Continuous Influence process and there are currently no plans to hide the field.

I could have made it more clear that the company name would be visible on idea's votes, just to be thorough. In general we've noticed there has been a strong decreasing trend in showing company name concerns. With LinkedIn, many customers have their information publicly visible already, I've been asking customers this question over the years and very few customers were concerned about displaying company name. As mentioned, making company name more prominent on Idea Place never became a priority as we simply didn't have a strong reason to make it visible. Now with the per company voting model, it makes much more sense. Recently, we've prototyped the new voting model with 1000s of customers and there was a lot of demand for showing the company and the company grouping.

Cheers

Kuhan

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This could potentially lead to more people registering with P-users, fake names and made-up company information to vote on initiatives like SAP Community, which have little to do with specific SAP software and where company details are irrelevant.

There is a difference between LinkedIn and Customer Influence site - on LinkedIn you have a choice what to display publicly and what to hide and they more or less respect that choice. Here, we get all the disadvantages of SSO (you really need to fix the login process, it is embarrassing) and yet, the choice we made in our profile to hide personal info is ignored. If company information is vital for making decisions on specific improvements, this could have been made available only to people who are in charge of the initiative.

I am surprised by your statement about Google search retrieving personal information from Idea Place, while your team tried to hide it on some pages. I am not an expert in the area, but I thought that the well-known search engines like Google, DuckDuckGo, Bing and Yahoo respect robots.txt (there are workarounds, of course, via other providers).

As to the voting model - the idea to eliminate down-voting was probably not a wise decision as at least for SAP Community ideas it may lead to incorrect representation of the data. Are there plans to restore down-voting in the future?

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RE: Fake users. It's always possible but a lot of these fake accounts will likely not be using a company email domain and rather a gmail or yahoo. This is other information that can be used to validate top voted ideas. The solution is not perfect but is a step.

Even outside of LinkedIn, I have very few customers requesting this now. We did try to not show the company in an earlier prototype but customer demanded it, one example why, customers wanted to know all the other employee's from their company who had voted.

robots.txt is treated as a suggestion and can be ignored (or partially ignored) by search engines. We did try to use it in some scenarios but struggled with it. As I mentioned, the company name topic was becoming less and less of a request so it wasn't a priority. The primary reason we were hiding the content is because it was a second place if not an nth place to see profile data and we wanted to encourage people to go back to the community to search, browse or edit profiles.

The value of down voting is still a debated topic and even then it's effectiveness can become more uncertain with other factors. For example, it can also be just as effective to not vote and provide feedback in a comment. As Idea Place required a comment for each down vote this information existed and was what was migrated.

What's embarssing with the SSO?

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I am already logged in to SAP Community. Upon logging in to Customer Influence I see this:

Why can't this work like https://messages.sap.com? Navigating between Expert Search in SAP One Support Launchpad and SAP Community Q&A also does not result in blocked popups and link clicking. The sad fact is that even logging in to SCN Wiki (perceived as outdated and old-school by some) from SAP Community pages looks and feels better - yes, you need to click on Login at the top, but here are no popups.

I agree that respecting robots.txt is optional, but during Open Beta there was some evidence that at least Google and DuckDuckGo seemed to comply with the setting, this is why I was confused by the claim that Google does not really do this.

I cannot fully agree that commenting why you do not like an idea is the same as down-voting. When it comes to reporting and prioritizing tasks people are more inclined to look at the hard numbers without digging up what somebody meant in a comment.

I fail to see how relevant to Acme Corp. would be that some Oceanic Airways employees voted on a specific idea... Maybe the Acme Corp. managers could be content with viewing only how many and which of their own employees voted, the rest is none of their business.

As I am a freelancer right now, my e-mail address is not linked to a huge company, but to a small and relatively unknown e-mail provider. The assumption that my vote could be less worthy than others is not really motivating. If the Customer Influence site is intended only for S* and D* users, then maybe SAP Community initiative does not belong there at all, because SAP Community is equally open for anybody willing to participate- be it a freelancer, a student or a business user.

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In regards to the SSO pop-up, yes we are looking into it. As to why old school and out of date applications do not have this. I can only assume that they have had time to mature. :) This is the first external use of the SAP Innovation Management solution integrated into Cloud Identity, we're ironing out kinks. In the mean time, a pop-up exception for influence.sap.com will provide you a seem less experience.

RE: robots.txt, it's quite possible Google may work very well with it now but as I said it wasn't a priority.

I did not mean to imply that commenting is the same as down voting. I am saying that down voting by itself for customer enhancements does not provide much value and that it is just as valuable to not vote on the idea and provide critical feedback via a comment. It was also not used very much on Idea Place, down votes were only 0.5% of votes for migrated ideas.

I've shared your feedback with the team in regards to showing company name; there may be other reasons I am not privy to. It's always an option to request it as an enhancement and if there a lot of votes, perhaps it would get more attention. Of course, the unfortunate catch-22 is that your company name would be visible.

The SAP Community is definitely the exception on Customer Influence. But, even though the site functions a certain way, at the end of the day it is up to the owning teams on how they want to run their session. The SAP Community session is open to all email domains and I am pretty sure the team looks at all requests. I'm not sure whether Jerry Janda cares to comment on which voting type they would use. We do encourage considering both during prioritization.

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"Even outside of LinkedIn, I have very few customers requesting this now. We did try to not show the company in an earlier prototype but customer demanded it, one example why, customers wanted to know all the other employee's from their company who had voted."

If companies want to show their names, fine. If they want their employees showing the company name, fine.

But because some companies demand it, should not take the choice away from everybody else. And that's what's missing here. Someone else decided that my information needs to be shared and not myself and I'm not okay with this.

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Hi Steffi,

Company name is needed for the feature and it was implemented that way because we've never had much feedback against it. That's the why. If company name is not used, then the feature doesn't work. This would be new behavior and we would need to look into it what this means.

Idea Place users have never had the option to display or not display company name. I believe the only Idea Place configurable field was photo. New users should've not registered if they did not agree to use of their data.

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Going forward, having the per company voting is a core part of 
Continuous Influence process and there are currently no plans to hide 
the field.

Kuhan, I guess I understand the message, and there's no further need to discuss that.

Well, if SAP won't respect my privacy concerns, then there's one simple consequence for me:

I simply won't participate in the Influence process.

Now I have several questions:

  1. How can I list all ideas I have voted for (or against)?
  2. How can I drop my votes I had provided in the Idea Place? In the new site, I see no GUI facility to do so.
  3. If I'm not able to drop my votes myself, I expect your company to drop those for me.

Jerry Janda, Kuhan Milroy: It would have been a good idea (pun aside) to inform us about that change in privacy policies before the migration.

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I saw already companies listed in the votes where no user is listed anymore, and I saw users that are listed without company not sure how this is possible as I am pretty sure that the user logs in with a S-user ID

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I am inclined to believe that either:

a) some of the profile information in Customer Influence site is not retrieved from accounts.sap.com, but was partially migrated from other sources (e.g. the legacy site) or it was captured at different time;

b) the information in https://accounts.sap.com/ui/protected/userData is not full or it is not accurate or it does not apply to Customer Influence site.

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I found a link from a menu item in the profile on Customer Influence site pointing to Privacy Policy.

In section 7 there is text:

Please note: you may change or delete the user profile, proposals or comments you made at any time.

On top of that, in section 9 there is a mention that if one wishes his/her personal data corrected or deleted, the right approach is contacting Customer Influence site via e-mail.

Probably it is just me, but this looks a bit confusing as I also could not find a GUI option for editing or deleting the profile. The only changes, which I found are profile picture upload and assignment to SAP UG.

I found a way to drop your vote. The color of the vote icon is slightly changed from gray to light orange and upon hovering it shows text that you already voted.

You need to click on the same icon to clear the vote. This only works in the early phases, which means that for the migrated ideas in status Review this is not possible. If someone switched to high contrast mode, the icon is maybe easier to distinguish.

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Volker, if you're suggesting that I deliberately withheld information, you are mistaken. I did everything I could to maintain transparency throughout the migration process. I was unaware of any change here, and the moment I saw Steffi's comment, I reached out to Kuhan and asked him to respond, which he did. While it's obvious that I didn't communicate everything I should have communicated, there was no attempt whatsoever to hide details.

Since you tagged Kuhan with your questions, I'm certain he'll respond again. I'll also reach out to him as well as some other information has come up here that I need further details about.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Jerry, no, I don't want to suggest that you have deliberately withheld information. Re-reading my comment, I do not think that my words suggest that meaning, and it certainly was not and is not my intent.

Nevertheless, I checked the Influence site before the migration (based on your according CC discussion and blog), and after the migration, and in both cases votes were displayed without company information. (See my comment from 2017-09-26 on the situation...)

So, I want to raise the point that the – according to Kuhan intentional – inclusion of company names was neither announced nor visible until a few day ago, and so I had no chance to drop my votes on the Idea place (where that would have been possible). Now, as Veselina Peykova has found out (thanks to her astonishing commitment to test those issues, by the way!), we seem unable to drop votes from migrated ideas, and now here I am asking what to do now.

EDIT: I have removed my votes on the ideas which are still open for voting (and finding out those would surely allow for several new ideas, my eyes still hurt), but apparently I'm not allowed to drop votes on ideas claimed as "delivered", "under review" or "development". So please do that for me.

----

Again, Jerry, I do not at all blame you for that situation, but I do blame SAP as a company for disrespect of my privacy concerns.

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Jerry, could you please help me to find out where the "Privacy Policy" (as linked by Veselina) does mention that those private attributes are revealed to other users?

As I do not have created a profile for the Customer Influence site, I do not know where I could have provided such information, and for my general S-User-ID account, those informations are required, so I have no chance to leave them out.

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we had this discussion right after the launch of the new community: https://answers.sap.com/questions/30093/company-name-in-profile-undisclosed-without-consen.html

and I certainly know a top contributor from the PP/APO area who has quit participation because of this reason and has not yet been back even after it got fixed.

I can just say that SAP is not learning from its earlier mistakes, just rolling out redesigns one after the other (don't know if that falls at all under 1DX as it looks totally different to the rest) and everything is broken and un-tested and gets critic over critic. I wonder how you could wonder that people are leaving and do not want to help you anymore voluntarily.

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Yes, I mentioned that thread two days ago (possible somewhat hidden in comment on Steffi's top-level comment).

However, the main difference seems that last year it was declared a bug and was fixed (although not as soon as one might have expected) whereas here we are faced with a situation where SAP considers that a feature.

----

And to prevent any misunderstanding: I certainly do understand that SAP wants to evaluate votes based on company information, importance/influence of customers and the like, and of course each SAP division/team should evaluate those as needed, but I do not understand why parts of this information should be visible to others. In agreeing on the "Privacy Policies" each user already has allowed SAP to use information from the profile to evaluate votes (and possibly contact voters). But as said, that should be used internally by SAP.

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I want to ask SAP the same - to remove all information related to me from Customer Influence site: votes, comments etc. I do not want to use the site with no privacy support.

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The request to remove was done 6 hours ago - no reaction from SAP,

Kuhan Milroy please perform the removal of sencitive information!

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Hi Vadim,

This is not the correct channel to request account changes/deletion. Per the privacy policy, you will need to contact influencing@sap.com. Please include your email and SAP user-ID with your request. To not have your company name visible, request your account deleted and do not log on to the influence.sap.com/sap/ino again.

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Hi Volker,

You will need to request your account deleted and not log on to the influence.sap.com/sap/ino again.

Please email influencing@sap.com with your email and SAP user-ID with your request.

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Yes, I've done that. I'll report on the outcame.

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Status after 48 hours after I sent an according request to the mentioned mail address: No response at all.

Is such this the expected behaviour, Kuhan Milroy, i.e. should I prepare for a longer timespan until my account is dropped?

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I have not requested account deletion and I am able to navigate the site, but I noticed that I am unable to find the improvement request, which I submitted some time ago in the section of My improvement requests. I found it by searching and it is displayed as Created by erased (https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/200329 ):

On the ideas, where I have voted before, I suspect that my vote is shown for company erased and user erased (no popup with details is available to verify):

https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/idea/200559/?section=sectionVotes

I checked this in Firefox and Google Chrome and with two different userIDs. I cleared all data in Firefox between login attempts. Google Chrome is portable and was downloaded shortly before I logged in for the first time to Customer Influence site, which leads me to believe that the problem is not on my end.

Is this how a disabled profile looks like or this is something else? Because it seems that I am able to vote again on the same improvement if voting is permitted by status (I tested and indeed the vote count was increased, but it is added to a different company group, because now I have no company name in the profile). I noticed that the comments made by me appear as anonymous (no name, just text), which is why I ask - is my profile deleted, broken, inactive?

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I'm confused - ideas you have submitted now have 'erased' for a submitter. Did you request anything here via the influence email?

Just to confirm: The expected outcome is that it shows your name as submitter.

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I am able to see other people's e-mail addresses via Customer Influence site.

This is unacceptable and contradicts really basic principles on data protection.

Unfortunately I see no option to hide the e-mail address via GUI.

So I am asking politely for clear guidelines how exactly we can hide this personal information and comply with section 7 of the Privacy policy:

"You should therefore not include any Personal Data of yourself"

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What? E-mail addresses are visible? Then SAP will be responsible for all spam messages coming to my account... Looks like SAP want me to stop any participation on SAP websites!

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Not everybody's e-mail addresses are displayed, but some are visible.

I do not know based on what criteria this is shown to the public.

Edit: they fixed it.

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Can you provide some screenshot (with e-mail blacked)

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Ok, I found another one - this time a different user.

For the ones I saw this before e-mails do not appear.

For obvious reasons I obscured the company name too.

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Hi Veselina ,

email should absolutely not be visible. Can you send an email to influencing@sap.com with the urls that display emails and a screenshot. As well, please include what account you are using.

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I can't see my own email address under "My Data" now. Is this you guys or do I have another issue?

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This happens for random members and is probably not reproducible if not done immediately.

Earlier that day my own data ( P-user) was visible and that of another P-user (I logged on with an old P-user of mine to see if it had something to do with my own settings and it was the same - both profiles showed e-mails, address data etc).

The picture I posted with obscured data I think belongs to a S-user.

Now when I logged in from another browser, the info of this S-user is not displayed.

It is more efficient if your team starts looking into that as I am unable to determine a root cause or dependency - otherwise I would have added some logs from the console etc.

All I know is that it cannot be related to some caching on my side as I use private browsing mode and achieved the same result in separate browsers via separate logins.

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We're looking into it.

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Email being shown to some users bug has been fixed.

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Is this the right place to "contact the website owners"?

Why does it not simply prompt for the certificate, like other SAP websites?

No dice anyway:

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Hi Jelena,
This is odd. Do you get this for other browsers? Can you add an exception for pop-up blocker on influence.sap.com?
I beleive I've seen this but it was more a cache/timing issue and should go away with a browser cache clear and restart.

I'm trying to keep up on feedback via the community these but these comment threads are getting a little long, you can always submit feedback and ideas here: https://influence.sap.com/sap/ino/#/campaign/11

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The screenshot shown was already after allowing pop-ups. "Single sign-on enabled" appears in every browser and I have to click on the link explicitly. After that it opens another tab (why?) where it prompts for the certificate.

I don't want to play around in Chrome as it's my "designated SCN browser". In IE, when I try to login with a certificate and new S-ID (I have 2 of them), I get this:

It wants me to type in the street address (required field). What for? Is SAP going to send me a postcard? I'm giving you my S-ID, how come you don't have the company's address on file?

At this point I have 0 desire to proceed further, sorry. (By the way, in the past few months I've already had to "upgrade" my account for at least 5 different parts of sap.com. I know it's not your problem but all of this just adds to overall "user experience".)

Tried again in FF to make sure it wasn't a temporary issue. Got the same result. Also tried with the old S-ID that I had for 10 years and used on the Idea Place before but got the same error.

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The upgrade dialog is because the Customer Influence site has it's own account requirements that may differ from the basic account that is part of accounts.sap.com. I had thought that any information that had already been entered was pre-filled and in some cases even unmodifiable. I will look into this.

Sorry it's too much. All I can say is that we know and have been taking steps to integrate components better.

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Hi, everyone:

As Kuhan responded to Steffi, he and I are meeting with some other colleagues tomorrow to go through the various concerns -- and come up with a new blog post to explain the situation better, share proposals, and offer solutions.

Apologies for making you all wait a bit longer. We do take the complaints here very seriously.

I ask for your patience as we regroup and work to come back to you with something to address the matter.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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Hi, everyone:

As I promised above (and as Kuhan noted in a comment to Steffi), we consolidated all of the input here and published a new blog post addressing all concerns, comments, etc.

Please see:

https://blogs.sap.com/2017/10/11/idea-place-to-customer-influence-design-voting-process-and-privacy-concerns/

I recommend that we move the conversation over there, so that Kuhan and his colleagues can respond more easily -- and all in a single conversation dedicated specifically to the more recent concerns.

Thanks!

Best regards,

--Jerry

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No more interested in this site, it's for companies, not for individual users. Idea Place is dead now. I recommend to restrict logon to this site only to valid S-ID.

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As Kuhan noted in the other post, the voting scheme was changed from company to individuals for the SAP Community session.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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I am very sorry, but do you think that my primary goal to visit Idea Place was to improve SAP Community? I have different areas of interest: Business Planning and Consolidation, EPM, BW etc. And I had votes and comments in the mentioned areas. Due to privacy issues I requested to delete my account with all this stuff.

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My apologies, I assumed we were talking exclusively about the SAP Community session here. I understand your point now.

Best regards,

--Jerry

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