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First time use and against the wall!

Really cool to introduce a tag system for Q&A that is mandatory and than having no choice. Search as search can... Who had that idea?

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Oct 11, 2016 at 12:41 PM
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It will take some time to get used to and it will be updated and the usability extended (for example I miss searching the tags for abbreviations like IDM instead of Identity Management).

But this is what we have now, there is no going back, just forward. If you find more bugs, use the "Using SAP.com" tag to post them in the Q&A. :)

And welcome to the Coffee Corner. It's a place to relax, but also to vent a bit. ^^

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In the old SCN, you had to select a space first before you could ask your question. Now you need to select a tag. What's the difference?

Without the tags, questions would not find the right persons to answer them.

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The difference is that you clicked into the space from the available menus. So once there, you were there. I had my main area set as a bookmark so I never really had to select it.

Now, you always have to type in the tag when creating a question. And those aren't necesarily intutitive. For new users I think it will be difficult. For instance, my "Tag" is now "PLM Quality Management (QM)". Can't it be just "QM"? Is there another QM module in another SAP product I'm not aware of? Honestly, most new users aren't going to know that.

And I have to type 3 letters to search for primary tags. Guess what? QM won't work. It has to be "(QM" or "QM)" to find the tag. I can type in "Quality" and PLM Quality Mangement (QM) is the last choice of numerous choices. My guess is a lot newbies will be posting QM questions with the wrong primary tag.

So yes, while I can figure it out, new users and occasional users are really going to struggle. The site shouldn't be built to have a steep learning curve. But that seems to be a recurring theme around SAP. :-)

Craig

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Former Member
Craig S
Oct 11, 2016 at 08:57 PM

Hi Craig, great comments, please ensure you post this in

https://ideas.sap.com/sapcommunity

and have all your friends vote on it.

best regards,

Bill

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Come on Bill,

I am really sorry but I have the impression that this is now the standard comment of all SAP employees. You find a bug - please put in an idea in the idea place.

Am I the only one thinking that this is SAP's job? Shouldn't some of your company note that down and organize/manage further proceeding? Did you already check idea place (there are already a ton of duplicate ideas)?

Regards

MH

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Idea place is not for bugs, it's for ideas for new features.

And I don't think that the team has no list of bugs to fix etc. They communicated very clearly that there is a list, that they are working on fixes and they do deploy bug fixes.

So maybe have a little faith and patience? ;) We are now at Day 3 after the launch. It will take some time, no need to give up that fast and deem everything a complete failure just yet.

Regards,

Steffi.

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I actually read all ideas there - many of these were suggested as feedback during Open Beta.

I am quite happy to see them, now I don't feel like a complete weirdo, like at the time when I asked about some of these improvements (I thought it was just me being too old and conservative).

What I can't understand is - why the idea place was created now and not during Open Beta?

Would it not be easier if we had all suggestions in one place from the start?

Is there a way for the SAP team to migrate/recreate the feedback from the archived discussions?

It is not that much has changed in terms of navigation or usability since Open Beta started - most of the ideas are still valid. Right now we cannot search the archive by old forum spaces and user tags like #bug or #feedback (at least I haven't found a way to do so) and avoid duplicated requests.

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They have a list of the BETA feedback, have you seen it? There are a lot of ideas already on there. So I guess they aren't lost.

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I didn't ask many questions in the old platform (Open Beta bug reports don't count), but in the few cases I did that, I started from the space menu 'Create a discussion'. For me at least, it was easy to find the right space:

  • There were navigation menus
  • We had a space index page with links to spaces, which was accessible from any forum page.

I have never felt lost, helpless or extremely stupid like now, when I use the new platform (this statement is coming from someone, who used OS with no nice-looking UI).

The biggest problem is that Q&A consists of two components - Questions (you need to be able to create them easily with the correct tags) and Answers (you need an easy way to find these questions, optionally search for similar content in the forum) and answer them.

Sometimes, you can't provide an answer right away, you need to ask for additional information, which (hopefully) the OP provides.

But now I have to refresh the activities page or hunt for the same questions in the answers list to see if there are new comments.

Typically I comment on several questions per day, the list on my profile page will become big in a month. I cannot possibly remember who was the last person commenting on each question, so that I will know that the OP replied with additional information.

The big majority of site visitors are not native English speakers, many of them have poorer navigation skills than me. It must be really hard for them to find out where they posted a question, if somebody commented already asking for more information or if a good answer was provided.

If I hadn't participated in the Open Beta and bookmarked the pages with tags I am most interested in, I would be now asking questions with randomly selected tags.

It is no coincidence that the majority of the questions since the launch are related to site navigation.

There is a popular phrase:

“A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it's not that good.”
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"For me at least, it was easy to find the right space:

  • There were navigation menus
  • We had a space index page with links to spaces, which was accessible from any forum page.

I have never felt lost, helpless or extremely stupid like now, when I use the new platform (this statement is coming from someone, who used OS with no nice-looking UI)."

(No option to insert a quote in the comment? That's rich...)

Anyways. Same here. IMHO transition was handled much better in the last migration. In the first week I was already able to find the ABAP and SD forums and answer questions there. I have not gone farther than Coffee Corner here and it's because it's the only place I can get to from that top menu. Which is completely useless otherwise.

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The menu could've been worse - one of those "stick at the top" forever kinds :)

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I bookmarked the tag pages for SD, MM, LE, S/4 HANA etc. so that I can navigate somehow, but now I read people reporting different content displayed in tag page vs tagged page:

https://answers.sap.com/questions/29098/question-not-showing-up-in-tag-page-but-is-showing.html , so now I am not sure if this was a good decision.

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Dear Friends,

Let's not delude ourselves by convincing that 'tag' system is the same as it was with the 'spaces', because it is not. Spaces or actually 'folders' allowed focusing on concrete theme, without too much effort. Look at this as a groceries shop... You have many shelves currently organized/grouped by type of the product: fishery, butchery, bread, dairy products, milk, etc. A person who enters the shop goes to the relevant area and selects the products required. This was 'space' concept of old SCN. With 'tags' the concept is rather different: it is the same shop, but not divided any more by areas. Instead, all the products are put in one place (unfortunately, currently is rather a 'pile', as there is no possibility to filter/search), and there is a tag pinned to them, or several tags, you name it. Of course, a person who came to by some milk is feeling lost. He came for milk and he doesn't need coffee or beer. But, he finds himself standing in front of tagged products and he has to go and look for milk, with little hope to find any, especially the special brand of it, he wants currently to buy. So, don't blame some anonymous SAP consultant, back in Timbuktu, who wanted to have an answer about some behaviour of FI/CO table, and who's now feeling 'cheated' with the new look of SCN.

We should anticipate, and most probably it was the goal of SCN strategy team, that the population using new platform will not be the same as it was under the 'ancien régime'. Focusing on concrete issues/problems, an SAP consultant is facing at the given moment, is over. Instead, there will be more space for blogs, sharing experience, etc. Let's look into it and see how SAP Community world evolves.

Best regards,

Eli

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I really like your shop example :)

My biggest problem with tags is that if I need to get coffee, I will see a pile of different beer brands, energy drinks, buttermilk, cookies, cream etc. - only because somebody thinks that beer, energy drinks, buttermilk and coffee can be used to battle hangovers (an urban myth, by the way).

At 7 AM, when my coffee abstinence is kicking in, the last thing I want, is to waste half an hour moving beer crates around. I just need coffee!

And, if I can't find this coffee easily in 10 minutes on my own or if a helpful shop assistant does not appear instantly and give me the coffee in 10 minutes, I will go and buy coffee somewhere else.

Where I live, shops with poor layouts and slow-reacting staff don't exist for long - there is competition. This means that either the shop gets closed (no clients - no income), or it tries to evolve into something else (definitely not a shop) and battle its damaged reputation.

And there will be people, who will enter the new shop, or whatever it became, expecting to buy coffee, even though you stopped selling products.

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I am the last one calling for "going back"! I clearly see that the internet is still developing and this means we have to work over every couple of years.#

But there are better ways: Why not opening up private tags immediately? I clearly understand that this will add a lot of messages that go directly into nirwana. But what is that in comparison to not being able to post ANYTHING?

Why do we always want to educate people and press them into a system? The learning of the new system will include to lose messages. so what? This is better than furstrating people. Frustration is the first reason why people turn away from websites (scientists say...)

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Wouldn't it be equality frustrating when people post their questions under a newly created tag and then nobody answers it, because they don't really show up anywhere?

The solution to a new system that people need to get aquainted with can't be to water it down just to get people posting.

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This would tell me that I might have chosen the wrong tags. My fault!

Suggesting tags is something different than mandating them.

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Actually Benny, I suspect you won't be the last one calling for "going back". Heard a few of those already.

There are workarounds for some items mostly cumbersome or outside of what was built. As bad as SDN-->SCN was, and it was pretty bad, this is an order of magnitude worse. Mostly because of a mindset that we "can fix it after go live" on broken/missing functionality that is starting to drive people nuts, moderators probably most of all.

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Andreas Huppert,

It is apparent you did not test blogs or questions or you would not be asking such a question. Please go create a question, answer someone else's question, follow a tag, find an existing solution from a previous Discussion in the Archive, create a chat with someone new, go to people and see if you can find someone else's profile there.

Oh, and mark all your notifications as read.

In short, exercise the new environment and then speak from a position of knowledge and experience.

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I think, that if more SAP employees had to use the new SCN, SAP One Support Launchpad and the official SAP help as their only source of information, then SAP would stand a chance to learn how to build better software and understand the meaning of compassion.

It is ironic, that SAP organizes free courses on design research and design thinking, people blog on SAP Community (not SCN, we lost the network component during the migration) about the 5 FIORI design principles, but you will read these blogs on a site, which now fails at least 4 of them.

Well, you will read the blogs, if you can find them and if the content was successfully migrated.

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I have a new SAP community favorite person in Veselina!!!

I'm not sure if ironic or sad is more suitable.

Craig

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