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​Meanwhile, over at Google

Back in the days coffee-corner was (intended to be?) a place, where non SAP stuff could/should be discussed, right?

Just noticing, as right now it all seems to be platform (=SAP Community) related.

But I have something here: What's your take on that "Google memo" thing going on right now?

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Aug 08, 2017 at 02:33 PM
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Many of the discussions (aka general moaning) about the platform here in the Coffee Corner would previously have been status updates in the old SCN, but they don't exist here. So we use the coffee corner instead. As it happens, I think these discussions are getting more traffic than they might have as status updates as they are more visible, so as much as I still want status updates to come back, I'm thinking this use of the coffee corner is actually a good thing.

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With the state of the platform at the moment: couldn't agree more!

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On "Google memo": some valid points with all the wrong arguments.

We do need to have the healthy discussions about these subjects; PC is sometimes going overboard; giving an unfair advantage to "diversity hires" is just as bad as sexism. (Personally, I would not want to be some kind of a "lady quota" candidate and would prefer to be evaluated based on my qualifications.) But what he tried to base the argument on is just the whole bunch of malarkey and moldy stereotypes.

The author lost me with his "women on average". Well, men on average started 100% of the world wars, they tend to think with their private parts and are essentially nut jobs with muscles. So, if anything, they should not be ever allowed in any leadership positions. How about that? How does it feel to be judged "on average"?

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Agreed, I would hate to be a quota and would only ever want to be judged on merit. And I personally agree with the point there's not much benefit in pushing for equal representation of any group just for the sake of diversity.

And, yes. Stereotypes / averages studies can be construed however you want to portray them, all you have to do is find the right statistic that fits your argument as you've shown haha. Though that's also not an argument to ignore science.

My personal irk is that it often feels like society isn't willing to accept that there are differences between us because people being unique would be terrible *closes eyes and covers ears to the world*

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It is so difficult to have a healthy conversation on the topic of gender equality, or even better gender differences. The moment you try it is going to be hijacked by someone from either end of the spectrum and in most cases it ends in an accusatory scream fest.

I find it healthier to emphasize the differences, both biological and cultural. And finding a way to make the best use of these unique features to make the whole greater than its parts.

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i just partially agree: despite not being around like some dinos here (just a joke!), it's a good 17 years i'm working in IT field.

When i started in ABAP 14 years ago, my mentor joked about "not having friends or male or females on work, just colleguees": i found it silly and somehow closemind.

Yet, after some years, i find it's more interesting to see what the person behind a skirt or a tie has to offer in terms of problem solving and work done.

I found (i'm speaking of good ones, of course! ) everyone despite being male, female, transgender (yes, i know a wonderful trans-woman with a mind so sharp i'm cut every time we speak!) has a total different approach.

You can see the "basement" from the initial setup and education, but if you take your time, you see here and there where everyone is unique.

So, from my point of view, both the misogyn attitude as well as the "lady quota" are a real loss, like any jobplace politic aiming to exclude someone (religion, skin, gender..)

---Edit to fix my poor my english knowledge---

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Exactly. It's silly to pretend everyone is the same. Of course, men and women have differences, we can't deny that. Acknowledging the differences and taking advantage of what each individual can offer is what makes best results.

To me it seems like Google HR took a good thing and twisted it into something cringeworthy. This is not unusual, unfortunately.

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Viva la Difference!!!

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I find it healthier not to care about these differences and treat everyone with equal disrespect :)

It works well towards people who don't believe that age, gender, race etc. defines you and for the rest, who do - it is a waste of time and energy to worry, care and tiptoe, because you will mess up anyway.

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Part of the problem is that this is not specific to the industry. This is modern society problem in general.
Women are still expected to be "in the kitchen, with kids" type of role..
So "traditional" male dominated fields have shortage of females, which leads to "lady quota" and dissatisfaction from those affected by it and the snow ball effects from that....

We need to work on ensuring our kids choose the fields of study based on what they are good at, not at what we see them doing or what we think society will accept them at.
Then we will see more ladies in hard science classes and more women colleagues at work.

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I agree with you completely. We are just at the beginning of the cultural shift here.

All we need to do is stop propagating the stereotypes and the next generation will grow up without them. At home, I keep reminding my husband not to say things like "stop crying like a little girl". It's a long process. :)

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That's very difficult to squash out as those sayings are ingrained from years and years of hearing them and thinking nothing of it.

Even the people who strongly support gender equality mess it up all the time. It's always confusing to me when someone starts an opinion post on the subject with "I am a woman" or "I am a man". If the genders are equal, why should you need to preface your opinions with your gender? Shouldn't your point be able to stand on it's merit alone?

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I was coaching my son's youth (7 years old?) baseball team with another dad when I got a call from an upset parent. The other coach had apparently told her son not to throw like a girl, to which the son replied to his mom "I don't think that was very nice to say about girls". (+1 to that kid!)

The other dad turned over the coaching to me shortly thereafter but remained a bad influence on his own son for a few more years before divorce settled that. Happy to report everyone (except the idiot father/ex-husband) seems to have recovered nicely.

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Funny thing: if you check the history of software develpment and IT in general, women were a strong force in informatic field until the 80s like Smithsonian says or this statistic does

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just shows how societies change and perceptions deviate... to serve consumerism civilization.
80-ties is when civilizational decline has started. We are no longer going to the stars. We will consume our self to extinction.

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Ok. you know me.. can't let certain things go by without comment... :-)

Well, men on average started 100% of the world wars, they tend to think with their private parts and are essentially nut jobs with muscles.

That isn't necessarily true. 100% is a bit off.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/01/european-queens-waged-more-wars-than-kings.html

And then there is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_who_led_a_revolt_or_rebellion

Craig

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420% of statistics are made up on the spot. :)

I said world wars, not just any wars. World war 1 and 2 more specifically. (And, sadly, we seem to be at risk now of the 3rd one started by the same gender.) Sorry it wasn't more clear. But thanks for confirming gender balance in this area. Really interesting list!

Edit: I was actually making a point that it's unpleasant and unfair to be judged based on "average" and misleading information just because you belong to a gender. So thanks for helping me to prove it. :)

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Humankind is pretty good to ignore gender diversity when it comes up to mess life.

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Ok. I'll give you the world wars but statistically speaking, a sample size of only two would have no statistical significance. :-) And no need to worry about WW III because it will be over in an hour and nothing left to see the aftermath except the cockroaches, probably mosquitos and ticks cause I despise them and they'll survive just to torment me, and maybe turtles who I kind of hope inherit the earth.

Plus you'd have to adjust for the ability to wage war. I.e. if women only controlled say 10% of the countries and regimes over history, but accounted for 20% of the waged wars, you could infer that on average a woman would be twice as likely to start a war.

But yes, I get the point you were trying to make about being judged on average info. :-) More than you think. I get judged every day in every article and TV segment for being an older white male. And frankly, in today's society there are no good judgements concerning that group. Zero. We are evidently the root of all evil. Every last one of us.

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