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author's profile photo satish v

End of SAP Career ??

Dear Moderators, Please allow this.

End of SAP Career in USA/India??

First of all I love this SAP more than any thing. I never imagined I am going to post something like this but very unfortunate things around the corner and career existence becomes questionable what else we can do.

Once upon a time working in SAP a pride. Not sure whats wrong but now working in SAP is a fear of moving around. One project in Los angels, other one in NJ, and next one in texas. Hard ship of this is just 6 months to max 9 months or 1 year.

Friends working in various technologies like java,.net, once htey finished project they find project in next door. and they have various offers of full times of their choice. SAP TEchnical full time jobs are like one in 10000.

Billing rates once upon a time it was outstanding and more value to the hardwork or country wide tour but now Billin rates are like 50$ or less also offered for 10+ - 15+ years experience which are like fresher or testing billing where there is less brain storm. Why SAP is not taking care of billing of SAP Consultants? why SAP is not valuing its own certifications?

One of the above reason of SAP jobs not availbale majorily because its missing the small companies and only focusing Big players.

SAP Should come up with some strategy to take care of 2 things 1) More clients should be pulled to SAP (Reduce the rate or increase some offers or approach small size companies) 2) Should take care of their consulting billing rates too ( It might be out of their hands but SAP Should start thinking that, there shoudl be a way) 3) Should make honor of their certifications( Advantage to SAP to generate more revenue ) onething I am missing with SAP is no remote jobs or hardly remote jobs. Why with diff ERP's Remote is allowed and with SAP its not encouraged, I dont know it would also make lifes better.

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29 Comments

  • Aug 03, 2020 at 05:55 AM

    SAP licence fee is huge, companies spend tons of money on licence to use and subscription. There is problem of plenty, lot of resources hence cost / billing rates goes south. SAP has changed their licencing model where based on turnover licence fees are charged for some products. Otherwise there are no new customers going to SAP due huge maintenance cost it entails. Hence companies are exploring other products with even lesser features. As usual most of the companies use excel and word for finally submitting to auditors or govt authorities. These are some ground realities.

    • Aug 11, 2020 at 01:45 PM

      Thats True, License feez is the big pain for the SAP Consultants, once upon a time since we are paying huge feez for licesning they want to take quality consultants by paying huge or investing huge.

      Now its like since we already paying license cost so much, lets save on consultants is the agenda.

      ++ SAP is implemented by Big mncs its always too many layers in between.

  • Aug 03, 2020 at 08:02 PM

    I'm not sure what you expect SAP to do? They don't control the rates companies are willing to pay. Welcome to globalization of the IT employee. As a LONG, LONG time SAP consultant and now a full time employee (not of SAP), this has been going on for years. My highest rates were in 1995-2001. Those rates are long gone now pretty much. Probably at least 30% less. And when you consider increased cost-of-living, rates today are 50-70% lower in terms of purchasing power.

    It's a bit ironic that you are bothered by this to be honest. India has been the prime driver for the out sourcing of IT resources overseas and holding down or driving down rates over the years. (with the obvious help from the major consulting houses). I'm making a possibly bad stereotyped assumption from your name that you are Indian. If you aren't, my apologies.

    But now, as more and more countries develop IT skills outsourcing is finding its way to other countries with cheaper labor. Malaysia, Indonesia, Czech, Romania, Mexico, China, Pakistan. Vietnam, to name a few.

    In addition, even in the US, employers are finding consultants in the US who are willing to work remote and at lower prices. And with covid, they are now having many non-IT employees work remotely. That means that companies in high cost areas, (NYC, Washington DC, LA, San Francisco,) can hire employees remotely in lower cost places like West Virginia, Kentucky, Minnesota, etc... If you work behind a desk all day, chances are your position can now be done remotely.

    And now that flying is practically shut down, (i can only speak for the US since I'm here), companies are not flying in many consultants and are really looking for local people and local remote people it seems. Being able to drive to a location in say 8-10 hrs and be on site say for one week a month, and remote three weeks is now a real benefit.

    I also think that many companies are seeing issues with having out-of-the-county remote workers that they never were concerned with before. The pandemic is also showing how having global supply chains vulnerable to local responses to the pandemic as well as political issues far out of their control, (think Hong Kong which will just be another Beijing in another 10-20 years) can greatly negatively affect their company. And now with hacking, security breeches, corporate espionage and seemingly every IT organization having to defend against cyber attacks, is it any wonder they want to limit their exposure to remote attacks and employees they may never meet?

    I think you'll see more and more of a move to the in-country remote worker more and more. And a move to tighter controls over those workers. i.e. having less of them in some cases. Maybe making them actual employees. Etc. etc.

    I think the pendulum is swinging a little bit away from only looking at the lowest cost option of a remote worker or consultant to one that includes a better risk analysis of having that lowest cost option. Cost will always be the primary consideration. But the pandemic is forcing many companies to really look at intangible risks that they never looked at before.

    All IMHO.

    Craig

    • Aug 04, 2020 at 05:26 AM

      Very good insight Craig! I see the same tendency here in n Europe with companies relying more on local resources. Due to Covid-19 there are many unemployed local consultants available who accept bit lower salaries (in exchange for home office days) including those who decides to change from being freelancer to a safer position of an employee.

    • Aug 04, 2020 at 12:36 PM

      Craig,

      good overview of the US SAP skills market. it ain't what it used to be and it's not coming back or if it is it's not going to be the same as when it was driven by the Y2K fears. one cannot rely on ABAP to create a maintenance lock on their programming skills and simply start collecting royalties from the programming work they have done. SAP themselves have noticed that and have been retooling to better and faster fit the cloud companies or what they like to call hyperscalers. they seem to hold the golden keys (or rings) these days.

      if a developer thinks Java is a better skill then let them run with it, regardless if SAP want to write easy APIs for it or not. instead of complaining why the rates have come down, why not to go to github and contribute some code? it will be a lot more valuable skill than any certification or a dream implementation project they would be thrown into the middle of.

      working remotely has just accelerated certain trends that have already been there. even if consultants start flying again and stay in hotels for months on end it will now be different because of the security concerns you have mentioned like something as simple as dealing with your airport or hotel wi-fi.

      and now, i will check out SAP developers YT as this is where SAP remote inter-action seems to be happening these days.

      cheers,

      greg

    • Aug 05, 2020 at 02:05 PM
      Companies really do need to consider very carefully how they handle remote, out-of-country hires or consultants. With the sophistication of computer technology, any remote worker could actually be in an entirely different country. Who can guarantee that the remote worker you just hired isn't actually in India but in say China or N. Korea? Most of us have already known of someone, or fallen ourselves, for the phone interview being done by person A on behalf of person B.

      Just another reason that remote jobs might be drying up overseas. Also, keep in mind that many companies are struggling in the pandemic. So many are only going to be doing the absolutely necessary things to keep their company going. Upgrades, acquisitions, major expansions, big project improvements are all going to be kept at the bare minimum. These are often the things that drive hiring consultants and extra programmers.

    • Aug 11, 2020 at 02:29 PM

      Well too many points to answer.

      1) You guessed it right about my nationality how ever I am based out of usa

      2) >>'m not sure what you expect SAP to do? They don't control the rates companies are willing to pay. Welcome to globalization of the IT employee. As a LONG, LONG time SAP consultant and now a full time employee (not of SAP), this has been going on for years. My highest rates were in 1995-2001. Those rates are long gone now pretty much. Probably at least 30% less. And when you consider increased cost-of-living, rates today are 50-70% lower in terms of purchasing power.

      I expect SAP to concentrate more on small -medium companies which is currently missing.

      Billing Rates if SAP as a company pays more to its consultants it applies to ourside vendors as well

      You are too shy to say 30%. lol its almost more than 50% less.

      Few other points I will reply once I got time, thanks.

  • Aug 04, 2020 at 06:23 AM

    It could be a little dangerous discussion :)

    What I saw in France, a lot of company decides for cost effort, to use OffShore company in India (mostly). But, after years of pain for low gain, a lot of companies try to come back to a NearShore organization.

    Why ? Because Indian people are not working like European people (and worst Latin People). The communication is really hard. The European Developper in Europe are more or less a Functional-Developper, he could understand a request. Indian Developper are pure technical (most of the time).

    Second problem, the European SAP developper change, to other techno like JAVA.

    And last year I saw a lot of company in my old little town, searching for a lot of developpers

    An old IT guy said, IT is a wheel: concept, organization are changing all the time, to come back to the first position. What we are creating now has already been done in past.

    So, just wait ;)

    • Aug 11, 2020 at 02:26 PM

      Topic is not offshore or onsite its like SAP as a product loosing its customers and not gaining new customers. Thanks for your reply.

  • Aug 06, 2020 at 06:03 AM

    SAP is a niche skill, so it can be hard to find people locally. But then if you lose a job it could also be hard to find one nearby. 10 years ago I moved from Maryland to North Carolina for a new job and at the time it was one of those great companies where people worked from high school through retirement. But fast forward 7 years, the company was bought and sold 2 times and had 2 layoffs. I found a new job when I sensed there would be layoff number 3. There were only a couple of openings for SAP jobs locally. But I also basically had no competition when applying.

    That's why travel was always part of the consulting job: it's hard to find specific resources locally and there is inherent (but unjustified IMHO) distrust with regards to remote work.

    I hope that what we learned in this pandemic will bring some positive changes for everyone and it won't be necessary to travel that much. Also maybe SAP customers will start hiring more employees within the same country instead of relying on the contractors and offshore teams.

    • Aug 11, 2020 at 02:24 PM

      >>SAP is a niche skill, so it can be hard to find people locally.

      SAP Should have been widely used across the globe since not many users it became niche skill, its become like white elephant for lot of users. SAP Shouldnt treat them as global leaders any more, Lot of different technolgies competing SAP in many ways and SAP still charging high feez make them nichie usage as well.

      Hopefully SAP Should find a way to implement ready made solutions for small customers as well and start bringing many roll outs.

      Once companies like the product they will pay any way.

      Its like 100 companies giving each a million $$ feez is same as 10K companies giving 10k feez is also the same.

      Infact the small company becomes big you can expect more down the line,

      No big company born in a day, so treat small companies also vendors then only we can succeed.

  • Aug 17, 2020 at 01:29 PM

    Globalisation has reduced rates. Some companies' experience of offshoring to perceived "cheaper" countries has caused them to near-source to countries that still aren't as expensive as "home", but close enough to be more easily controlled.

    1. So, first (for those of us in the West), we had great rates, no competition from overseas.
    2. Then rates went down in the West, due to offshoring, but boomed in the offshore countries.
    3. Now with the growth of near-sourcing, the demand for people locally and remotely is reduced.

    The good news is that near-sourcing becomes less cheap even more quickly than far-sourcing. So eventually rates equalise globally and we'll all be competing directly based on quality, rather than cost.

    A simplistic view, and certainly not the only factor, but I think it has some merit.

    • Oct 15, 2020 at 07:30 PM

      ok lets talk openly Matt.

      How or when the rates become equal globally??.

      India Billing rate is 25$ for SAP Offshore.

      Onsite is triple or 4 times to that price.

      Again this 25 dont go to consultant pocket. At max 15$ goes to the Individual pocket.

      That 15$ means he is highly paid candidate in Indian average salary.

      >>he good news is that near-sourcing becomes less cheap even more quickly than far-sourcing. So eventually rates equalise globally and we'll all be competing directly based on quality, rather than cost.

      So when is this going to happen ?

      • Oct 18, 2020 at 06:23 PM

        $15 seems less than the min wage of $25 in certain countries or about 60% and minimum means no special skills or education - just subsistence level - hence, something else than comparative advantage is at work here.

      • Oct 19, 2020 at 08:12 AM

        Certainly, the cost of offshoring to India as increased over the years, even if the workers aren't being paid more. I can't say how long it will be until there is parity - in terms of income/cost of living. Assuming things remain pretty much as they are... it could be another 30 - 50 years. But maybe sooner. I'm no futurist.

        • Oct 19, 2020 at 01:43 PM

          I have visited a big Service Company in Mumbai. I was very surprised by the office, so big, so clean, new with big space. By the time people are really working, no extra hour not paid

          So I am not totaly sure in Europe the salary vs cost of life & working conditions are better than in India.

          Now in France, there are good developpers paid 350 eur/day (and day could be more than 10 hours). Living with 350/day with all the taxes it is not so easy.

          (Indian developper cost ~ 150 eur/day)

  • Aug 18, 2020 at 08:22 AM

    I just wish the sentence that begins with "First of all" is an exaggeration. I really wish it.

    If not, I'm sorry for you. Really.

    • Sep 11, 2020 at 05:55 AM

      That first line of yours says a lot.

      • Oct 07, 2020 at 01:06 PM

        It says "job is not (and never will be) my most beloved thing". And it says "and I honestly pity anyone who beloves his job over every other thing".

        Nothing else.

        I'm not sure about your culture nor your language turns or their adaptation to English, so I want to assume work is not your most priced thing in live but just a way to sustain those things that are (like family, friends or any other selfish things).

        I want not to live in a world where work must be taken like a religion. It's the defeat of anything that makes us human.

        I enjoy my work as much as I can. Nothing else. I'd gladly leave the working thing if I'd have any way to sustain those things I really love in my life (family, friends and some little selfish things) without having to work.

        I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm much more sorry if I misunderstood your post.

        • Oct 08, 2020 at 10:59 AM

          Ohh boy!!!!

          I got it the way you intended only!!!!!!!!!

          I also don't prefer giving Work more priority than the reason(s) for our Existence on this planet, and hence I agreed with your point.

          I also hope my comments didn't make you feel offended.

          • Oct 08, 2020 at 04:00 PM

            is it fair to say that?

            we work to live but do not live to work?

            ...and we definitely want to be paid for our work.

            there may be other takes on this out there but cheers.

            • Oct 09, 2020 at 04:29 AM

              One thing I understood, this is a very sensitive topic to discuss and each one has got their own perspective and views for this!!!

              I shall again explain what I meant!!!

              I meant that we should prioritize purpose of our existence on this planet i.e. relationships,friends, our other assignments/passion/goals of life apart from work like say inventing something, discovering something, helping others, contributing to the society in one way or other etc. etc. over our job/work.

              That doesn't mean at all that we should do our job as if someone forced upon us. We should do our job with full dedication for the time( say for day wise 8-10 hours, for lifetime basis till age of 50-60 when normally people retire ) we are alloted to do that. E.g. As an example suppose your kid needs a help from you and you are busy with your Office job, then you should try to finish of your office chores as quickly as possible with utmost dedication so that it gets perfectly completed before time and you earn that time for your kid/family.

              Even though exceptions are there for the above case, suppose your job is such that it aligns with your life's goals as well then it's a different thing all together.

              So in the nutshell, do your job with utmost perfection and dedication till you are bound to do that. After that you should have a family, friend circle , other selfish things( as V.X. Lozano mentioned ) to spend time with.

              ...and we definitely want to be paid for our work.

              Again I would repeat we should never be like taking backseat regarding our job when we are in our job.

              I hope I was able to clarify my stand.

              I cannot explain more than this.

          • Oct 13, 2020 at 09:52 AM

            No worries, you'd need to put much more effort to offend me. Usually even calling me names is not enough to offend me.

  • Oct 01, 2020 at 05:13 PM

    I too find most of the content like ABAP will be end by another 5 years and too many products of SAP will be withdrawn.. but as long as customers needs customization ABAP can't be left ...

    • Oct 15, 2020 at 07:24 PM

      SAP Will not Dead but day by day new customers are zero and old customers will be shifting to cheaper modules.

      But I sincerly wish other way around.

  • Oct 09, 2020 at 12:43 AM

    Hello Satish,

    I sense your anxiety and uncertainty about your future. I wish you well and hope that you are OK. I hope you have access to some support services - if you do - consider using them. They can be well worth it.

    A few comments if I may. You write that career existence becomes questionable - what else can we do?

    May I point out that there was a time when you had no SAP knowledge at all - and you had to learn and acquire the knowledge that you have today. This very same opportunity exists today - you can still learn new things and there are a lot of things to learn.

    Life is not static and a key life skill is learning to change and adapt to changing circumstances. This may not be easy but it is something you can do.

    Best of luck!

    Andrew

    • Oct 15, 2020 at 06:30 PM

      Hy Andrew, Thanks for your reply.

      I am addressing this for all.

      Why cant SAP tighten its own shoe lases and add value to the companies, and change its expense structure I dont understand.

      After this I meet lot of sales guys and few managers, clients in my tiny circle.

      SAP is like half baked product once upon a time there is no company near to its vast solution like one destination for all modules.

      Now people are not inrested that. They want custom tailored solutions as each module want to have their own system.

      Ok back to topic, Since Java is free source and companies spend hardly on the license cost, they spent on People at onsite and recruit offshore.

      Since people already Spent enough on SAP they want to save on resources. So we see lot of SAP Outsource compared to inhouse.

      We may say globalization but we know how all MNC companies dragged the price despite even offshoring to meet their targets. Will continue later.

  • Oct 09, 2020 at 01:53 PM

    Hi Satish,

    hope you got some encouragement from the replies.

    As with anything in live, try to see the rules, adapt and outsmart.

    Kind regards,

    • Oct 15, 2020 at 07:23 PM

      Ha Ha nothing here changes my Friend I know, I dont think this will reach any BIG HEADS.

      Just for venting Frustration we can use this, but as saying Life goes on we will go on flow thats it.

      Thanks for your comment.

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